Has anyone heard of Window Medics before?

[Terence McCann]

www.defogit.com

According to the web site they can repair cloudy/foggy windows without replacing them. I've always told my clients that the only repair was replacement. Has anyone tried this?

Looks like there are franchise opportunities as well.

[Bain]

I've received maybe four pieces of mail from them during the past month or so. No clue as to how they do their thing. I've meant to check out their web site and haven't taken the time to do so.

[Chad Fabry]

I talked with a tech who does this sort of thing.

1) They drill through the desiccant strip

2) Fill the window with some moisture absorbing liquid (probably isopropyl alcohol)

3) Drain and force dry window

4) Add desiccant

5) Leave hole open to prevent desiccant from ever getting loaded again

It doesn't work if the glass is stained. It works best on recent failures.

[Terence McCann]

Thanks Chad.

So if the window is really cloudy they can't "clean" it correct?

The tech ever mention cost?

[Chad Fabry]

So if the window is really cloudy they can't "clean" it correct?

That's what the tech told me.

50-100 bucks a pop.

[Richard Moore]

My understanding is that part (I don't know how much) of the heat transfer or loss through insulated windows in due to the air circulating between the panes. The use of "thicker" argon or krypton gas is supposed to slow that circulation down and make the window more efficient.

So...while this new "fix" for condensation in windows may be the answer for an existing homeowner, I'm not sure that we should even mention it as a true "repair". It may not be a half-assed method, but it might be three-quarters-assed!

[Scottpat]

I had it done on my home before I moved, a dang home inspector called out the occluded windows!

They drilled two small holes at the bottom of each window. Put a device on the window that I think just sucked out the moisture. Injected a desiccant. The holes were left open. It removed all of the moisture that was between the panes.

I had two windows that were already frosted or etched and they had to be replaced. Once they fog or get that milky look they can not be restored.

I had eight windows done for $480. The cost to replace the two windows that could not be restored, $525.

[hausdok]

Scott,

Did you really meant to say "occluded" windows; wouldn't "windows with failed seals" or "fogged windows" be more appropriate?

OT - OF!!!

M.

[Scottpat]

Originally posted by hausdok

Scott,

Did you really meant to say "occluded" windows; wouldn't "windows with failed seals" or "fogged windows" be more appropriate?

OT - OF!!!

M.

That is what the inspector that did my house called them. The windows were occluded in several locations.

Me, I just say that the windows were "fogged" at such and such location and that more could exist around the home.

This was not the first time I had heard an inspector use the word "occluded" to describe fogged windows.

[hausdok]

Hmmm,

Well, I can understand occluded galvanized pipe, occluded arteries, an occluded colon, but I can't understand why he'd refer to windows as occluded. That's a good example of what WJ's always saying - when inspectors try and sound smart they give other folks plenty to titter about.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[Scottpat]

Originally posted by hausdok

Hmmm,

Well, I can understand occluded galvanized pipe, occluded arteries, an occluded colon, but I can't understand why he'd refer to windows as occluded. That's a good example of what WJ's always saying - when inspectors try and sound smart they give other folks plenty to titter about.

OT - OF!!!

M.

Bet I can tell "Occluded Windows" came out of the AHIT School. First time I heard it used was by Roy Newcomer, many years back at an InspectionWorld session.

[Richard Stanley]

oc·clude (-kld)

v. oc·clud·ed, oc·clud·ing, oc·cludes

v.tr.

1. To cause to become closed; obstruct: occlude an artery.

2. To prevent the passage of: occlude the flow of blood.occlude light;

3. Chemistry To absorb or adsorb and retain (a substance).

4. Meteorology To force (air) upward from the earth's surface, as when a cold front overtakes and undercuts a warm front.

5. Dentistry To bring together (the upper and lower teeth) in proper alignment for chewing.

v.intr. Dentistry

To close so that the cusps fit together. Used of the teeth of the upper and lower jaws.

[hausdok]

No,

Nice stretch, but I don't think so Richard. I just looked in my Webster's. It's got everything there except your occluded light insertion. Light is emitted, it doesn't flow like a liquid. If there were such a thing as a light occlusion it'd be listed in the ophthalmologist's dictionary. It isn't.

Still tittering.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Bob White]

It's listed here ---- http://www.thefreedictionary.com/occlude

My Ol' Faithful 1987 Random House Unabridged doesn't include the referece to occluded light though --- six of one, haf dozen etc.

I personally prefer clouded or fogged.

[Marc DiFrancesco]

Originally posted by Terence McCann

www.defogit.com

According to the web site they can repair cloudy/foggy windows without replacing them. I've always told my clients that the only repair was replacement. Has anyone tried this?

Looks like there are franchise opportunities as well.

THE PROCESS DOES WORK, BUT THE DEFOGIT.COM (WINDOW MEDICS) IS NOT THE SITE YOU WANT TO GO TO. THERE ARE LEGAL ISSUES WITH PATENT INFRINGEMENTS IN THE PROCESS. THE TRUE SITE IS "ccwwi.com". CRYSTAL CLEAR WINDOW WORKS HAS THE PATENTED TECHNOLOGY THAT CAN "RE-ENGINEER" WINDOWS BY REMOVING THE MOISTURE. THIS IS DONE BY DRILLING INTO THE IGU (INSULATED GLASS UNIT) AND CLEANING, RINSING AND DRYING (USING A SERIES OF NON-TOXIC SOLUTIONS). A PATENTED ONE WAY VALVE IS THEN PLACED ON THE HOLE (WHICH NOW REPLACES THE "WET" AIR WITH DRY,REGULATED AIR). NO MOISTURE CAN RE-ENTER THE UNIT, SO APPROXIMATELY 90-95% OF THE "U VALUE" IS RETURNED TO THE IGU. A 20 YEAR WARRANTY COMES WITH EACH RE-ENGINEERED UNIT. THERE HAVE BEEN OVER 300,000 IGU'S RE-ENGINEERED WITH THIS PROCESS TO DATE. I AM A FRANCHISE OWNER IN UPSTATE NEW YORK. FRANCHISING IS AVAILABLE (SEE THE WEBSITE FOR MORE INFORMATION / OPPORTUNITIES).

MARC DIFRANCESCO

PRESIDENT

GET THE FOG OUT OF ROCHESTER NEW YORK

[hausdok]

Marc,

Please stop shouting at my guests. It's very rude.

Editor

[Nolan Kienitz]

We've heard it, seen it, written it, used it ....

Keep it simple. No need to talk/write in "inspector-ese" with $5.00 words that our clients can't understand.

As Bob, Scott and others have noted ... "clouded or fogged" gets the point across quite simply.

[sirbrett]

I am a Window Medics dealer in Seattle WA. There is an awful lot of misinformation on the web about this process. It's actually quite simple and obvious once you understand it. If you would like to learn how the repair process works you could read this page written specifically for Inspectors on my webpage: http://www.wefixfoggywindows.com/home_inspectors.html

On Sept 1st 2007, a highly regarded home inspector who writes a column for the Seattle Times dedicated an entire column to my business after coming out and watching me do job. You can read his column here: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/h ... hay01.html

I hope this clears up some of the confusion. I would be happy to try to answer any questions you might have, though between my website and Window Medics (www.defogit.com) you should find most of your answers.

Incidentally, the COO of Window Medics owns 53% of CCWWI (Crystal Clear Window Works Inc) so these online spats between "competing" dealers is amusing at best!

cheers,

Brett

[Terence McCann]

Just out of curiosity Brett, how did you end up coming to this web site? Google search about Window Medics?

[sirbrett]

I would assume something of that nature. Another dealer sent me the link, asking me if we should reply to clear up the confusion. My reply: "Stuff like this is all over the internet…don’t even bother or you’ll not only never be able to stop, you’ll just be adding to the noise!"

Right after I sent that off to him, my fingers apparently signed on to the site and added to the noise. I hate it when they do that!

--brett

[randynavarro]

Brett, that's interesting information. Thank you.

I am curious though; how does one explain a window that "fails" prematurely. For instance, a home that's maybe 5 years old, and there's already one or two fogged windows?

As I understand the solar pumping theory, wouldn't the silica dessicant be too young to have been saturated so soon?

How else would the condensation occur?

[sirbrett]

Well now, you just had to go and open THAT can of worms, didn't ya? []

I'll try to keep this as short as possible...

There are many reasons and variables as to why windows "fail." Everything from the quality of the materials/dessicant, to the framing material (vinyl/aluminum/wood) to how well it was installed, to environmental conditions like rain/sun/sprinkler systems set too high, etc.

One condition you will see a LOT (especially since you're in the Seattle area too) is early failure in vinyl framed windows. "Early" meaning 5 - 8 years. First, because vinyl expands and contracts the most of all window framing materials used--up to 3/8 of an inch for a 5 ft wide frame. That is a LOT of stress on an IGU.

Second, nearly every vinyl-framed window built since 1994 has used a spacer called the "Intercept," or "warm edge." See pic. All window manufacturers make windows using this spacer --it's licensed from a company called PPG.

In my opinion, this spacer is terrible. Entire subdivisions built in 2000/2001 have windows failing (drive through Snoqualmie Ridge and take a look). Once you start looking around you'll see that all Commercial windows are still made with the "standard" spacer with which we are familiar, or variations of it. It remains a superior system. But the Intercept system is so widely used because it's much cheaper to build. Think of it as "builder grade."

The difference between the standard and Intercept spacer is that the Intercept is a U-shaped channel, lined with a "dessicant matrix," a thin band of caulk. Standard spacers are a hollow rectangular bar filled with dessicant beads of lessor or higher quality. Price again determines what quality of dessicant and how many sides of the window are filled.

From my experience in the field, good quality wood-framed windows with standard frames will often last at least 15-20 years. For aluminum framed, a good 12-15 years is typical. Vinyl...ten or less.

Did that answer your question? []

-Brett

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[sirbrett]

Originally posted by randynavarro

Brett, that's interesting information. Thank you.

PS. You have a great website!

[Terence McCann]

I love the term "builder grade". Goodman furnaces come to mind too.

If you have any "shouldn't have installed it that way" pictures would love to see them as well as an explanation as to why.

I have to warn you, once you come in here it's hard to find your way back out.

[SonOfSwamp]

Originally posted by hausdok

Hmmm,

Well, I can understand occluded galvanized pipe, occluded arteries, an occluded colon, but I can't understand why he'd refer to windows as occluded. That's a good example of what WJ's always saying - when inspectors try and sound smart they give other folks plenty to titter about.

OT - OF!!!

M.

Here's a little something I found interesting. Click here.

Look at the chart that correlates native intelligence to a given profession. There's no designation for "home inspector," but there are some rough equivalents, I think.

When one gets down to the nitty gritty, it's clear that some folks just don't have the natural gifts that are required to do certain things -- for instance, understand what certain words mean.

The only group I know who screws up the language more than home inspectors is rural softball coaches. Just can't turn a Tilt-A-Whirl greaser into a poet.

WJ