Ponyboy Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 I have looked through the code and can't find any statements saying horizontal rail are not allowed. The barrier requirement for pools states it can't be climbable. Besides the spacing issue, is this rail ok? Image Insert: 81.31 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 It would still be wise to mention the hazard of children climbing and falling to the ground. I don't see a graspable hand rail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Hi, As far as I know, there is no prohibition against horizontal rails. The only restriction is that a 4-inch sphere shall not fit between sections and a 6-inch sphere shall not fit between the step and the underside of the stair rail. Oh yea, also the graspable handrail. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfSwamp Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Since we HIs have to write about balusters frequently, I feel a need to point out that it's "balusters," not "balisters." 'Cause I know folks at TIJ like to do things right... WJ PS: I can't tell from the pic, but it looks like there's no landing at the bottom of the stair. Last time I checked, such a stair had to have at least a 3X3 landing at ground level. "I've got balisters on me fingers..." -- Ringo Starr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Hi Walter, Yeah, I saw that and had meant to change it before you or anyone else picked up on it but the phone rang and distracted me just as I finished replying to it and it skipped my mind. Fixed now. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 This same question arose not long ago. I learned in a CABO class many years back that balustrades couldn't be climbable, but apparently it was dropped from, or never existed within, the IRC. How'z about a grey area question? RE the lowermost baluster in the left side of the photo. Should it be 4" or 6" above the deck's floor? Does the 4" thing only refer to spacing between balusters, and does the 6" thing only apply to stairs? The obvious--and safest--answer, of course, is that the lower baluster should be 4" above the floor, but it's a little unclear when you're thinking horizontally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Hi, Well, to be technically correct, I think that we should be referring to horizontal railing sections as "rails." Balusters are supposed to be vertical members that are components of a balustrade and a balustrade is a handrail component that's used around elevated porches or patios. Elements of a balustrade can be vertical posts (stiles), vertical balusters, rails, handrails, and cap rails. I think the 6-inch gap criteria is only applied to diagonal members above stairways and does not apply to the openings in the balustrade above the surface of the deck; those should be no more than 4-inches. That's my story and I'm sticking to it unless someone convinces me otherwise (which is sometimes pretty easy to do). ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike P.S. The gap between that stairway and the lower rail of the stair rail looks to me like it's over 6-inches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Originally posted by hausdok Hi, Well, to be technically correct, I think that we should be referring to horizontal railing sections as "rails." Balusters are supposed to be vertical members that are components of a balustrade and a balustrade is a handrail component that's used around elevated porches or patios. Elements of a balustrade can be vertical posts (stiles), vertical balusters, rails, handrails, and cap rails. I think the 6-inch gap criteria is only applied to diagonal members above stairways and does not apply to the openings in the balustrade above the surface of the deck; those should be no more than 4-inches. That's my story and I'm sticking to it unless someone convinces me otherwise (which is sometimes pretty easy to do). ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike P.S. The gap between that stairway and the lower rail of the stair rail looks to me like it's over 6-inches. Agweed. And while we're at it, I'm pretty sure the code uses the terms "Guardrails," and "rails." The term "baluster" never made the cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Originally posted by Ponyboy I have looked through the code and can't find any statements saying horizontal rail are not allowed. The barrier requirement for pools states it can't be climbable. Besides the spacing issue, is this rail ok? Image Insert: 81.31 KB The IRC 2000 didn't allow it. R316.2 Guard opening limitations. Required guards on open sides of stairways, raised floor areas, balconies and porches shall have intermediate rails or ornamental closures that do not allow passage of a sphere 4 inches (102 mm) in diameter. Required guards shall not be constructed with horizontal rails or other ornamental pattern that results in a ladder effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 Originally posted by Mike Lamb The IRC 2000 didn't allow it. R316.2 Guard opening limitations. Required guards on open sides of stairways, raised floor areas, balconies and porches shall have intermediate rails or ornamental closures that do not allow passage of a sphere 4 inches (102 mm) in diameter. Required guards shall not be constructed with horizontal rails or other ornamental pattern that results in a ladder effect. I was waiting for someone to post that out of the IRC. I use a simple rule; if it can be easily climbed it is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtblum Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 What are the stairs fastened to at the top? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 Originally posted by sepefrio Originally posted by Brandon Chew I can't imagine those rope or wire guards holding back a crawling infant or a curious toddler. Young kids love to climb stuff. R316.2 (IRC-2000) ...Required guards shall not be constructed with horizontal rails or other ornamental pattern that results in a ladder effect. This sentence was removed from the 2003 and 2006 IRC; therefore the current code provides no restriction on the climb-ability of guards. Another interesting note from class. Guard rails may soon be required above seats, planters or any other ornamental item. So that's 36" (or 42" depending on the dwelling) above the item, not from the deck boards. So if there is a bench seat along the rail that is say, 24" high, the rail would then need to be 60" from the deck boards. I myself think that is going overboard, but...... This is from a recent thread. Is it incorrect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 Balusters are allowed 4 3/8 inch sphere to pass on the sloped gaurds descending along the stairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 The open risers are only permitted if they allow passage of no more than four inch sphere. IRC '06 Climbability was in the '03 but dropped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 I'd call the climbable rails, code or not. Who says it has to be code to make sense? People can choose to ignore the recommendation if they wan't. As an inspector, why stick your neck out on a safety issue like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truevalue Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 in my area no more open riser, should be closed and as far as the bottom of the stairs should be sitting on a 12"x12"x48" footing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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