TPR Valve

[Jeremy]

Image Insert:

139.24 KB

[Jeremy]

Image Insert:

103.56 KB

TPR valve?

1/2" discharge tube?

What is this?

[hausdok]

Hi,

I think it's a calibrated TPR valve. It's set for 125 psi at its lowest setting and you can increase the relief pressure up to 200psi; however regardless of pressure, it'll vent at 210°F.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[hausdok]

Hi,

Did a google search for "adjustable temperature and pressure relief valves" and found a lot of examples. Here's one:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PM ... 4&PMT4NO=0

I've been trying to remember where I saw one of those - I think it might have been on an irrigation system someplace. That doesn't make sense, though, because of the temperature variable.

Holy crap! a float plane just flew over my place way below the normal approach pattern! Hope he made it to the lake!

OT - OF!!!

M.

[MTL_Inspet_Man]

Correct me if I'm wrong but is this type of valve approved for this application?

[Jeremy]

I saw those too when I googled. I can see how it could double as a system pressure relief by the lower press relief setting rather than the typical 150/160 setting. Or if you had a system that you wanted to run higher than 160 psi.

This one has 3/4 inlet and 1/2 discharge. My mind keeps saying the discharge needs to be 3/4, but I can't find the back up for it. There is a ANSI reference in the IRC, but I don't have any ANSI literature. All the TPRs I've seen til this one have had 3/4 discharge and the manual relief lever that we never touch.

But ??? Is it o.k.????

[resqman]

TPR discharge has to be at least the same size as the cold water inlet.

[Chad Fabry]

TPR discharge has to be at least the same size as the cold water inlet.

I didn't know that: would you supply a reference please?

It's been my understanding that there can be no reduction in size so if the tank outlet is 3/4, the valve must be 3/4.

[Mike Lamb]

Originally posted by resqman

TPR discharge has to be at least the same size as the cold water inlet.

I never heard of that either.

I had this in my library. I'm not sure where I copied this from since I don't have a copy of the IRC 2006.

IRC 2006

P2803.6.1 Requirements for discharge pipe. The discharge

piping serving a pressure-relief valve, temperaturerelief

valve or combination valve shall:

1. Not be directly connected to the drainage system.

2. Discharge through an air gap located in the same

room as the water heater.

3. Not be smaller than the diameter of the outlet of the

valve served and shall discharge full size to the air

gap.

4. Serve a single relief device and shall not connect to

piping serving any other relief device or equipment.

5. Discharge to the floor, to an indirect waste receptor

or to the outdoors. Where discharging to the outdoors

in areas subject to freezing, discharge piping

shall be first piped to an indirect waste receptor

through an air gap located in a conditioned area.

6. Discharge in a manner that does not cause personal

injury or structural damage.

7. Discharge to a termination point that is readily

observable by the building occupants.

8. Not be trapped.

9. Be installed to flow by gravity.

10. Not terminate more than 6 inches (152 mm) above

the floor or waste receptor.

11. Not have a threaded connection at the end of the piping.

12. Not have valves or tee fittings.

13. Be constructed of those materials listed in Section

P2904.5 or materials tested, rated and approved for

such use in accordance with ASME A112.4.1.

I'd say the TPRV has been modified and ask if the manufacturer of the tank thought that this was OK.

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by Mike Lamb

Originally posted by resqman

TPR discharge has to be at least the same size as the cold water inlet.

I never heard of that either.

I had this in my library. I'm not sure where I copied this from since I don't have a copy of the IRC 2006.

IRC 2006

P2803.6.1 Requirements for discharge pipe. The discharge

piping serving a pressure-relief valve, temperaturerelief

valve or combination valve shall:

1. Not be directly connected to the drainage system.

2. Discharge through an air gap located in the same

room as the water heater.

3. Not be smaller than the diameter of the outlet of the

valve served and shall discharge full size to the air

gap.

4. Serve a single relief device and shall not connect to

piping serving any other relief device or equipment.

5. Discharge to the floor, to an indirect waste receptor

or to the outdoors. Where discharging to the outdoors

in areas subject to freezing, discharge piping

shall be first piped to an indirect waste receptor

through an air gap located in a conditioned area.

6. Discharge in a manner that does not cause personal

injury or structural damage.

7. Discharge to a termination point that is readily

observable by the building occupants.

8. Not be trapped.

9. Be installed to flow by gravity.

10. Not terminate more than 6 inches (152 mm) above

the floor or waste receptor.

11. Not have a threaded connection at the end of the piping.

12. Not have valves or tee fittings.

13. Be constructed of those materials listed in Section

P2904.5 or materials tested, rated and approved for

such use in accordance with ASME A112.4.1.

I'd say the TPRV has been modified and ask if the manufacturer of the tank thought that this was OK.

Hey, thanks Mike. I completely overlooked that.

There is a change form the IRC 2003. The 2003 would have permitted this TPR by the way it reads. It says "The diameter of the discharge tube should not be less than the diameter of the relief valve outlet."

Thanks for the extra eyes.[:-bigeyes

[SonOfSwamp]

I think the discharge pipe info is also included on the tag that's supposed to be attached to the TPR valve.

WJ

[Jeremy]

This water heater was raped. All tags, stickers identifying info and manufacturer are gone. So is the life of the heater.[:-bigeyes

[hausdok]

The 2003 and 2006 codes both refer to the outlet side of the TPR; not the inlet side. They mean that you can't reduce the pipe once it leaves the outlet. The code doesn't say anything about a 3/4" inlet or outlet requirement. That doesn't look like a reducer to me. Walter's right, it's according to the manufacturer's instructions and, absent the instructions, I don't see how you can call this without knowing what they say. If someone has an actual credible reference that says that the outlet side of the valve must be the same size as the inlet side I'd appreciate the citation so I can save it in my file; otherwise, we'll be perpetuating another unsubstantiated myth here.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Steven Hockstein]

More detailed TPR requirements can be found in IPC (International Plumbing Code)- Section 504

[Richard Moore]

I saw one of these in 2003, on a Congress Beauty-Glas water heater. I remember posting the pictures back then (at IN I think). Never did figure out the exact age of the water heater, but the general consensus seemed to be '60s or early '70s. In other words...OLD!!!

Image Insert:

100.54 KB

I suspect that Jeremy's client also needs a new water heater.

[Jeremy]

I suspect that Jeremy's client also needs a new water heater.

You suspect correctly, and they were certainly informed of that. It is my own curiosity I am trying to solve at this point.

Mike, you right, that is not a reducer. The TPR itself has 3/4 inlet and 1/2 outlet and so as far as IRC goes, it meets the requirements.

...but I still like TPRs with 3/4 all the way through...

Do you concur?

I'm glad the heater is toast!

[Jeremy]

Does anyone want to take a shot at it?

Image Insert:

210.31 KB

[SonOfSwamp]

Originally posted by hausdok

The 2003 and 2006 codes both refer to the outlet side of the TPR; not the inlet side. They mean that you can't reduce the pipe once it leaves the outlet. The code doesn't say anything about a 3/4" inlet or outlet requirement. That doesn't look like a reducer to me. Walter's right, it's according to the manufacturer's instructions and, absent the instructions, I don't see how you can call this without knowing what they say. If someone has an actual credible reference that says that the outlet side of the valve must be the same size as the inlet side I'd appreciate the citation so I can save it in my file; otherwise, we'll be perpetuating another unsubstantiated myth here.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

IIRC, I copied the words off a manufacturer's tag, and inserted the text into the Plumbing section of my reports.

WJ

[hausdok]

Hi Walter,

Yeah, I understand that Watts' specific intructions state that, and we know that a manufacturer's rules trump code, so, yeah, I use the tag when it's a Watts device installed. However, Watts isn't the only manufacturer out there. Absent another manufacturer's instructions, it would be nice to have a code reference if there is one. These guys keep referring to a code requirement but I've yet to see the specific citation that says the outlet side of a TPR valve must be the same size as the inlet side; the only thing that I've seen is a citation that says that the size of the discharge pipe may not be less than the outlet side of the valve.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Richard Moore]

Hi again Jeremy,

I just took a look at the old report to refresh my memory. The home was built in 1965 and so it seemed very likely that it was the original heater. I don't know when (or why) they started or stopped making "glas" lined water heaters, but as your label has the same Retro look as the Congress, I'd guess it's from the same period.

Aside from the funky TPR, mine was still working and showed no signs of leaks. Yours?

[hausdok]

Hi,

The Hotstream name goes way back to the early 1900's when J.M. & L.A. Osborn Co. 6486 Rapin St, Buffalo NY was producing sidearm gas water heaters (An forerunner of today's tankless water heaters). To see a picture of one of these, click here. I almost bought one of these for a 1964 GMC schoolbus that I'd converted to a motorhome back in 1972. A friend talked me out of it 'cuz he figured I was either going to blow myself up or asphyxiate myself.

The name was later acquired by MorFlo Industries, 18450 S. Miles Rd., Cleveland, OH, and then Mor-Flo was purchased by American in the mid 1990's. The Hotstream brand water heater hasn't been made in at least a couple of decades in this country. However, it is being made in China under a joint venture with Southcorp Holdings Ltd. which was acquired by Rheem in 2001. Obviously, the Rheem-owned subsidiary product and this one aren't even related beyond the fact that it's a water heater.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by Richard Moore

Hi again Jeremy,

I just took a look at the old report to refresh my memory. The home was built in 1965 and so it seemed very likely that it was the original heater. I don't know when (or why) they started or stopped making "glas" lined water heaters, but as your label has the same Retro look as the Congress, I'd guess it's from the same period.

Aside from the funky TPR, mine was still working and showed no signs of leaks. Yours?

The water heater was still working and no signs of leaking, but plenty of corrossion at the nipples and the draft hood was eroded away where one of the lines passed by it. It was one of those large hoods. The house was built about 72 and I think it is likely that this is the original water heater. It is old.

[AHI in AR]

Not to sound snotty -- in fact, merely offering an observation -- I'd venture that work is slow around Mike's neck 'o the woods.

Seems to have a lot of time to post info these days...[]

Then again, I took an inspection Thursday that requires an hour and a half drive each way, so I can't say things are exactly hopping around here, either. (I'll have my choice of a couple good BBQ joints on the way home, so it's not an entirely wasted trip.)

[hausdok]

Originally posted by AHI in AR

Not to sound snotty -- in fact, merely offering an observation -- I'd venture that work is slow around Mike's neck 'o the woods.

Seems to have a lot of time to post info these days...[]

I can't complain, I was busy right through the spring, summer and fall and turned away about half a dozen jobs over the past month because I was too busy to do them. Other inspectors around here haven't been so fortunate; I know a couple of fellows that have been in business since the late '80's and it was they who I fielded the overflow to after they told me how grim things had been.

Business has suddenly dropped off over the last week or so, but I don't know whether it's the market or the normal early-winter pattern settling in. I don't know about where you are, but work around here normally drops off every year just before Thanksgiving and kind of idles through to the New Year. We do get the occasional December hiccup where a few folks want to get into a new house before Christmas but with home prices still falling I don't see that as being likely to happen this year.

Of course, if you'd prefer I not post and keep info coming to you guys, that can be arranged too.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[AHI in AR]

Around here it has traditionally been slow from around Thanksgiving to right at the first of the year. Like clockwork, it picks right up after Jan 1.

Unfortunately, I expect a different pattern this year.