RobC Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 I knew the linesmans gloves AND the safety glasses would come in handy someday. Download Attachment: ElectricalGarage_M.jpg 75.66 KB Download Attachment: ElectricalGarage1_M.jpg 65.87 KB I hope your electrical inspection went better than mine today.[:-crazy] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonTx Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 I knew something smelled about your post...now I know what it was!! Glad you're okay...now go clean those pants! Donald Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Repeat after me: I will remove the breaker tie the next time I take a cover off. I will remove the breaker tie the next time I take a cover off. Glad you are OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobC Posted September 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 I don't generally remove the deadfront but curiosity got the best of me when I noticed a 40 amp breaker (top left) inside the 30 amps main disconnect panel. Repeat after me: I will remove the breaker tie the next time I take a cover off. I will ....................... Scott, I'll check more carefully NEXT time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradfeldt Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Rob, Did I read correctly? "I don't generally remove the deadfront..." That is part of ASHI standards and I believe a very important part of the inspection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusty Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Originally posted by RobC I don't generally remove the deadfront but curiosity got the best of me when I noticed a 40 amp breaker (top left) inside the 30 amps main disconnect panel. Repeat after me: I will remove the breaker tie the next time I take a cover off. I will ....................... Scott, I'll check more carefully NEXT time. Good grief Rob. Just what do you inspect when you do the electrical inspection. 90% of it is inside the panel. BTW: I see you are one of those guys that advertise that you inspect to ASHI standards without the benefit of membership. Maybe you want to rethink that part of your advertising until such point as you actually research them and meet them??? Could be big problems for you down the road in coughing up that deductible on your E&O when the tortes hit the fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 I inspected the first home that wasn't a total piece of crap just the other day. Discovered defects and problems were so few that I couldn't WAIT to get to the panel. I wasn't disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence McCann Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Wow Rob, glad your ok! That could have been a lot worse! Don't let it stop you though from removing the covers, it is part of SOP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobC Posted September 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 What I mean by the deadfront is the service box cover portion of the combination panel. The distribution cover is ALWAYS removed but I've given up removing the 'deadfront'- scary experience a long time ago that I've never recovered from and therapy won't help. Any of you out there remove BOTH covers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusty Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 I'm not sure what you mean by "both" covers Rob. I always remove whatever is necessary to see the wires, breakers and connections inside the main and all subpanels. I have never found it necessary to remove the door from the deadfront cover. I am extremely careful with certain Stab-Lok and Zinsco panels and if I meet any resistance whatsoever in removing the deadfront cover on those I defer it. It only took about 7 years of listening to Douglas Hanson harp on safety glasses that I finally got it through my thick macho head to wear them. I've been very lucky in that respect. I'll take no more chances, and by the way I am glad you weren't injured Rob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 I'm not sure what he means by "both" covers, either. Here's something that happened to me, though. Client's dad, retired and amiable enough, was on site and dogged my heels through the entire routine. When we got to the panel, I did not stop to focus on which breakers were on or off, I just wanted to remove the cover, check for decent job etc., and move on. The house was only a cpl of years old and pretty upscale, custom home. Dad wanted to help me get the cover off, and I let him, since the cover was large. During removal, though, a cpl. of the breakers got hit by the cover and thrown, which "click" sound was obscured by "clang" of panel and door, and by grunts of dad and self. That eve got call from homeowner wanting to know why the lights wouldn't work in this room and that. "The child, once burned, shuns the fire." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 I bet when he is talking about 2 covers, he is talking about the panels that have a double cover on them. You have the outside cover with he door and once you remove that cover you have another "dead front" that is covering the breakers. I don't know the brand but they are a pain to mess with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Thomas Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Jim, "Lucky guy" Could have been the frig, freezer or worse, the prize salt water fish tank. I too remove what ever cover is needed to see the wire breaker size. I want to see if the home owner "fixed" anything. Ever since the guy told me that he built the addition himself and he wired it himself too, so I shouldn't have an problems. He didn't know what a junction box of wire nut was. He screwed the switches and receps right to the paneling and taped all of the twisted splices. Scary Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusty Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Originally posted by Jim Baird I'm not sure what he means by "both" covers, either. Here's something that happened to me, though. Client's dad, retired and amiable enough, was on site and dogged my heels through the entire routine. When we got to the panel, I did not stop to focus on which breakers were on or off, I just wanted to remove the cover, check for decent job etc., and move on. The house was only a cpl of years old and pretty upscale, custom home. Dad wanted to help me get the cover off, and I let him, since the cover was large. During removal, though, a cpl. of the breakers got hit by the cover and thrown, which "click" sound was obscured by "clang" of panel and door, and by grunts of dad and self. That eve got call from homeowner wanting to know why the lights wouldn't work in this room and that. "The child, once burned, shuns the fire." I won't let anyone within 10 ft. of me when I go for a panel.[:-scared] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobC Posted October 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 The majority of our panels are combination panels. The service box and distribution box are 'combined' and each one of them have their own covers. Download Attachment: ElectricalPanel.JPG 256.65 KB You'll notice the first illustration on the left has what I call a deadfront - at the main breaker and The bottom area would be the distribution portion with its separate cover. I used to remove the bottom cover and then the deadfront (main breaker) cover until one day I had a revelation that change my mind about messing with the main disconnect cover (dead front) So the question remains- How many of you remove the main breaker cover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Originally posted by RobC The majority of our panels are combination panels. The service box and distribution box are 'combined' and each one of them have their own covers. You'll notice the first illustration on the left has what I call a deadfront - at the main breaker and The bottom area would be the distribution portion with its separate cover. I used to remove the bottom cover and then the deadfront (main breaker) cover until one day I had a revelation that change my mind about messing with the main disconnect cover (dead front) So the question remains- How many of you remove the main breaker cover? Rob, I think you'll find that type of panel is relatively unknown in the U.S. It seems to be a Canadian thing. Years ago, I attended an electrical seminar where a Canadian attendee had a question about those panels and had to spend at least 10 minutes trying to explain them to the U.S. audience and the presenter. They never fully got it. (The question had to do with allowing or disallowing branch circuit wiring in the upper portion of the panel. As I recall, he thought that branch circuit wires were prohibited from occupying that upper space which he felt was intended to be dedicated to the service entrance conductors. Is that really the case in Canada?) At any rate, it seems to me that you'd want to open that upper section to look for the size of the SECs and to examine the condition of the connections up there. I don't see why opening that section would be any more dangerous than taking the cover off of one of our all-in-one panels down here. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Jim cleared it up, I now understand what you are talking about when you say "Both" covers. And like Jim said it is probably about the same as our all-in-one panels. Now I don't relish taking the cover off of Zinsco panels, a little too close of engineering design for my comfort level!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Hi, Like Jim, I've never actually seen one of those, but I have seen something similar with some of the exterior, pole-mounted services to manufactured homes, and some older fuse boxes have that setup. I take both portions - top and bottom - off, so I can see the entrance conductors, lugs, etc. When I can't get that portion off for some reason, I disclaim that area as uninspectable. Scott, Zinsco panels are as numerous as flies on crap here. Years ago, I used to get nervous opening them up, but not any more. It's getting easier to deal with them though, ever since a major local electrician told me how they'd replaced about 80 of them in an apartment complex and found dangerous issues in a significant portion of them. I just relate that to the clients now and haven't had to argue about one with a homeowner or realtor in quite a while. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusty Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 I still can't see them problem with removing the lower cover Rob. What was your revelation or reason? Can you supply photos of one in it's various states of disassembly? Maybe that would help us understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 Wadsworth panels. Most people have never heard of them. They comprise about 80% of the apartment building panels here in the Big Dirty. They all have nasty "interior dead fronts" held in place w/ nasty little clips. They can "stick" in odd ways, & more than once I've found covers w/ the familiar "arc weld burn" from someone not quite being handy enough in removing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobC Posted October 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 I'll take a photo of my panel and have a discussion tomorrow. In the middle of selling and buying a home - the reason I don't check in as often. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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