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Attempt to ground the receptacles


Phillip
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The house had 3 prong receptacles on a two wire system. Some one had run a green wire to in attempt to ground them.

The wire going up goes to the receptacles above it then it goes to the other receptacles

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Then they run to this.

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I see that practice regularly, but without the clamp. They just run a bare copper wire from the outlet and wrap it around any metal pipe.

Hi Bill,

I had alway said that a lot of this crap work that i see around here was imported from the north M[:D][;)][:-eyebrow

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Hi Bill,

You say it didnt work, did all that wiring not even make its way to a panel? Just seems like a lot of work, to not have it work.

Steve

Originally posted by John Kogel

It was not working.

Hi Steve,

The wires did not go back to the panel and when I tested the receptacles most of them where not showing to be grounded.

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In this part of the prairies, the water supply is often poly, but everyone still bonds to the waterline. I've even seen a by-pass wire on the water meter just a few feet away from the poly supply line.

There may be a valid reason for bonding sections of metal plumbing in a house, even though the supply line is plastic. The idea is to prevent a shock in the case where the copper pipe can become energized by accident.

If the only copper piping is short stubs at the water heater and hose bibs, or like in your case of the water meter, yeah, then there's no logical reason for bonding.

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I am no electrician....but, I don't know that just because a tester doesn't pick-up the grounded condition that it isn't technically grounded.

If there is no common neutral bus for the ground then would a tester really "see" it as a ground?

I am in no way endorsing this wiring as correct but maybe it really is grounded?

Just a thought.

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I am no electrician....but, I don't know that just because a tester doesn't pick-up the grounded condition that it isn't technically grounded.

If there is no common neutral bus for the ground then would a tester really "see" it as a ground?

I am in no way endorsing this wiring as correct but maybe it really is grounded?

Just a thought.

If a properly working tester doesn't see it as grounded, then it's not grounded.

If a properly working tester sees it as grounded, it *might* be grounded.

Remember that the thing we call "grounding" at a receptacle has nothing whatsoever, at all, in the least little bit to do with a connection to the earth. "Grounding" at a receptacle means that you have a connection to the service neutral. If you don't have that connection, you don't have a grounded receptacle.

In Phillip's original pictures, the idea wasn't bad, just the execution. If you have a old, ungrounded system and you wish to install grounded 3-slot receptacles, you can run a separate equipment grounding conductor to "any accessible point on the grounding electrode system." (250.130©). A metal underground water pipe that's connected to the service neutral is part of the grounding electrode system, but only the first 5' from the point where it emerges from the ground. You can run your receptacle equipment grounds to that first 5' section. (250.52(A)(1))

Also, if you're going to do this, you either have to use #6 wire or you have to make sure that the wire is protected from physical damage. (250,120©) The wires in Phillip's pictures are smaller than #6 and they're not protected from physical damage.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

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