me and DIY plumbing

[John Dirks Jr]

I'm redoing my laundry room. New machines are on the way. I'm trying to decide if its worth the trouble to install a stand pipe drain for the new machine.

The old washer drained into a basin. The copper lines are 1 1/2" and go into iron pipe that goes under the slab. Is the 1 1/2" enough to handle the washer drain via standpipe? If not, how do I disconnect the lead molted junction at the iron pipe so I can install a larger pipe? how would I connect larger PVC to the iron?

Should I ditch the standpipe idea and stay with the basin to catch the washer drain?

The reason I'm contemplating the standpipe install is to relieve the hassle dealing with lint traps to prevent the basin drain from clogging.

Nasty looking huh? It's all about to change.

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[hausdok]

Hi John,

I'll let the ex-plumbers here answer the technical questions more directly but I think it would be wise to go to a larger drain than the old 1-1/2-inch pipe. I remember an article a few years ago in Plumbing and Mechanical magazine that was written by one of their regular monthly columnists; wherein he mentioned a home that had been flooded when one of the new high-capacity washing machines with the fast pump-out feature had been installed on some old 1-1/2-inch pipe. The premise of the article was to warn other plumbers to be aware that the volume of water pumped out per minute in new washers was far beyond what the old systems were designed for and they needed to take that into account when doing remodeling work.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[mgbinspect]

For what it's worth, I have warned folk about new clothes washers on 1.5" drain line and had them call back to tell me, "You were right, it tends to overwhelm the line and back up toward the end of discharge." I'd change it out. Can't help you on the plumbing side - not that good. Apparently, some of the new clothes washer pumps are a bit too mighty.

[John Dirks Jr]

Thanks Mike. I don't feel very comfortable with 1-1/2 pipe. It drains fine but it cant move water with gravity at the rate that the machine pump puts it out. Thats why the basin fills up about 1/2 way and drains at its own pace.

I might need someone to slap me into reality and say that the stand pipe is not worth the trouble. I could figure it out either way. I guess my main question is, what are the pros and cons when comparing a stand pipe drain to a basin setup?

[kurt]

Washer drains should be 2". That copper is so pretty, I'd probably spring for a copper wye to a 2" copper standpipe. It'd be ridiculously expensive; I think 3" coppery wye's are hitting around $60, 2" and 3" copper about $100 for a couple feet.......OK, maybe I wouldn't........

Chop our the copper and get to plastic as soon as you can with Fernco hubs.

Get a new wash basin; nice and clean.

Put in a slop sink; it's nice having a floor level slop sink for brush cleaning and such like.

[Jim Katen]

I'm redoing my laundry room. New machines are on the way. I'm trying to decide if its worth the trouble to install a stand pipe drain for the new machine.

The old washer drained into a basin. The copper lines are 1 1/2" and go into iron pipe that goes under the slab. Is the 1 1/2" enough to handle the washer drain via standpipe? If not, how do I disconnect the lead molted junction at the iron pipe so I can install a larger pipe? how would I connect larger PVC to the iron?

Should I ditch the standpipe idea and stay with the basin to catch the washer drain?

The reason I'm contemplating the standpipe install is to relieve the hassle dealing with lint traps to prevent the basin drain from clogging.

Nasty looking huh? It's all about to change.

It doesn't look nasty. It looks typical.

Personally, I'd just stick with the basin. Tie the leg from an old pair of pantyhose to the washer drain hose to catch the lint. Change the pantyhose leg every couple of months or whenever it needs it.

If you insist on installing a standpipe, you'll have to move up to a 2" pipe. Once you cut it loose, the copper will just pull out of the cast iron hub. Believe it or not, you can connect the new PVC to the cast iron hub with oakum & molten lead just as was done in the original installation. For the amount of pipe you'll need, why not just use copper?

Oh, and if you don't want to mess with molten lead, they make a rubber gasket that just pushes in place. It isn't as robust as the lead, but it works pretty well.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[John Dirks Jr]

The sink was going to stay either way. I think I'll keep the washer draining into the basin as it has been. Get a nice new basin and fixture of course.

The old washer and dryer, and I mean old, are still working. I've been fixing them for years and years. Sometimes she hates that fact that I can fix things.

The new machines look like something out of a Sci Fi movie. She's looking forward to their arrival.

Thanks to you all for your thoughts.

[Erby]

I often find it amazing that in our society, old things that are still working fine (repaired maybe, but still working) are replaced with new fangled things just because the wife wants something new with all the fancy .

New stoves, refrigerators, microwaves, washers & dryers, vacuum cleaners, for the little woman or house husband.

Computers, stereos, game consoles, BIG screen TV's for the other half.

Yup, guilty as charged. Well, at least on the stove and washer dryer.

Gotta keep the peace, ya know!!![:-monkeyd[:-monkeyd[:-monkeyd

-

[hausdok]

New stoves, refrigerators, microwaves, washers & dryers, vacuum cleaners, for the little woman or house husband.

Computers, stereos, game consoles, BIG screen TV's for the other half.

Yup, guilty as charged. Well, at least on the stove and washer dryer.

Gotta keep the peace, ya know!!![:-monkeyd[:-monkeyd[:-monkeyd

Speak for yourself. I was up at the BX at the Navy Support Center last week and saw a Samsung 3D TV on sale. Checked it out and thought, "What's the big deal? Why should this be so expensive?" The wife, on the other hand, put on the glasses, watched it for 15 seconds and was begging me to buy one. I was like, "Ain't no way I'm going to pay such an outrageous price to purchase one of those, just to watch a limited range of programs and CD's when every set we have at home works just fine - especially when a year from now it will sell for half that price and two years from now a quarter of that price. Ain't gonna happen!"

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[John Kogel]

The sink was going to stay either way. I think I'll keep the washer draining into the basin as it has been.

Sorry, but I don't agree. A new 2" standpipe will free up your new sink so it can be used for other stuff while the washer is running.

You can use ABS or PVC pipe with a trap, because it'll mostly be hidden behind the new machine anyway. You'll need to install a tee with a short stub into the iron drain pipe with an adapter. Then a Fernco adapter back to the copper stack. That's what I'd do anyway.

[Erby]

Speak for yourself. ... Ain't gonna happen!"

If I was close enough, I'd bet you a beer you'll have one hooked up to the internet inside of six months, so she can watch her Korean soaps on the big screen instead of a tiny computer screen.

Ya know you want her to be happy and you know that would make her happier.

-

[Tom Raymond]

John are you getting a front loader? Most of those are low water consumption. Mine is almost 9 years old and on the most thirsty cycle uses around 11 gallons of water total. It drains just fine through a 1 1/2" stand pipe. The old one used 30 gallons or more per load and drained just fine on the same stand pipe.

Me thinks the flooding stories are folklore.

[John Dirks Jr]

High end top loader with the matching electric dryer. The model linked below.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/LG+-+5.2+Cu ... &cp=1&lp=1

[Terence McCann]

New stoves, refrigerators, microwaves, washers & dryers, vacuum cleaners, for the little woman or house husband.

Computers, stereos, game consoles, BIG screen TV's for the other half.

Yup, guilty as charged. Well, at least on the stove and washer dryer.

Gotta keep the peace, ya know!!![:-monkeyd[:-monkeyd[:-monkeyd

Speak for yourself. I was up at the BX at the Navy Support Center last week and saw a Samsung 3D TV on sale. Checked it out and thought, "What's the big deal? Why should this be so expensive?" The wife, on the other hand, put on the glasses, watched it for 15 seconds and was begging me to buy one. I was like, "Ain't no way I'm going to pay such an outrageous price to purchase one of those, just to watch a limited range of programs and CD's when every set we have at home works just fine - especially when a year from now it will sell for half that price and two years from now a quarter of that price. Ain't gonna happen!"

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

Sooo.... did you cave yet Mike? []

[Tom Raymond]

High end top loader with the matching electric dryer. The model linked below.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/LG+-+5.2+Cu ... &cp=1&lp=1

There is no spec for the water consumption on the LG website, Best Buy says it's water efficient but gives no details. Guess you'll have to read the manual to see what size drain LG recommends.

[kurt]

Me thinks the flooding stories are folklore.

Nope, factual. It's not about the gpm drainage, it's about the sudsy water; lots of suds will block drains. I've seen it many times.

The newer HE stuff doesn't *suds up* with lots of bubbles; it may not be a problem on a 1 1/2" pipe, but why would anyone install what's wrong? (we know why.......)

And, what's the cost difference for getting it right with the 2"? It's meaningless.

Go with a 2" pipe.

[Marc]

Nope, factual. It's not about the gpm drainage, it's about the sudsy water; lots of suds will block drains. I've seen it many times.

The newer HE stuff doesn't *suds up* with lots of bubbles; it may not be a problem on a 1 1/2" pipe, but why would anyone install what's wrong? (we know why.......)

I can't even imagine how soap bubbles could impede the flow of water.

Do I have that right? Soap bubbles?

Marc

[kurt]

Yes, you have that right.

Take a lot of really sudsy bubbly water, and try to make it go down a drain.

It'll eventually go down, but it will back up to vents and anyplace else it can back up into.

[Jim Katen]

Nope, factual. It's not about the gpm drainage, it's about the sudsy water; lots of suds will block drains. I've seen it many times.

The newer HE stuff doesn't *suds up* with lots of bubbles; it may not be a problem on a 1 1/2" pipe, but why would anyone install what's wrong? (we know why.......)

I can't even imagine how soap bubbles could impede the flow of water.

Do I have that right? Soap bubbles?

Marc

Fun demonstration of the effect of suds:

Put a couple of tablespoons of regular hand dishwashing detergent in your dishwasher & run it through a cycle.

In single family buildings, the suds don't usually cause a problem unless you flout the drain sizing rules. On larger buildings, though, it can become a serious issue and the UPC has special provisions about connecting other drains to drains that serve suds-producing fixtures.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[hausdok]

New stoves, refrigerators, microwaves, washers & dryers, vacuum cleaners, for the little woman or house husband.

Computers, stereos, game consoles, BIG screen TV's for the other half.

Yup, guilty as charged. Well, at least on the stove and washer dryer.

Gotta keep the peace, ya know!!![:-monkeyd[:-monkeyd[:-monkeyd

Speak for yourself. I was up at the BX at the Navy Support Center last week and saw a Samsung 3D TV on sale. Checked it out and thought, "What's the big deal? Why should this be so expensive?" The wife, on the other hand, put on the glasses, watched it for 15 seconds and was begging me to buy one. I was like, "Ain't no way I'm going to pay such an outrageous price to purchase one of those, just to watch a limited range of programs and CD's when every set we have at home works just fine - especially when a year from now it will sell for half that price and two years from now a quarter of that price. Ain't gonna happen!"

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

Sooo.... did you cave yet Mike? []

Heeeelllllll No!

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Erby]

Won't be long now. You know yuu're dreaming about how much happier she'd be watching her soaps on an internet connected big screen TV instead of straining her eyes to watch them on a tiny little computer screen.

Happy Yung = Happy Mike!

-

[hausdok]

Nah,

Korean television shows aren't broadcast in 3-D yet. Besides, she watches them via the internet on her computer, so it doesn't make sense to purchase an obscenely expensive 3D TV to watch a small selection of 3D movies and broadcasts currently available. By the time 3D movies and shows are commonplace, the price will have dropped waaaaaay down.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Jim Baird]

Current plumbing code requires 2" laundry drain to go directly to a 3" pipe, the 2" not shared with anything else.

Plumbers have told me the rationale is that soap manufacturers thru time have developed soaps that are more and more sudsy, as consumers think sudsy means better soap.

One told me a lady had soap suds backing up through the toilet.

[John Dirks Jr]

Oh so purdy. I think the Sea Foam Green paint is freakin' my camera out.

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[Neal Lewis]

Fun demonstration of the effect of suds:

Put a couple of tablespoons of regular hand dishwashing detergent in your dishwasher & run it through a cycle.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

OK, Jim can you come over and help me clean up the kitchen floor.[^]

Actually, in the seventies I used to help my dad the Maytag man on service calls. Occasionally a homeowner would think the dishwasher was broken after they put dish soap in and it overflowed with suds.