Erby Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 I don't want to prejudice you with my opinion so I'll just post the pictures and see what y'all think. This is the back of the 58 year old brick veneer house. Image Insert: 149.77 KB Water is wicking up from the sill plate into the rim joist area all along the back wall. The sill plate is above the basement garage doors. The sill plate is NOT below ground level. No "obvious" source of water in the rim joist area. No pipes, etc. Moisture meter said it was dry at time of inspection but who can remember the last time we had any decent rain around here. Image Insert: 143.87 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Trees just dumping water directly on the wall? The house sits at the bottom of a bowl? The house is built on a land fill and has sunk four feet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bernhardt Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Is that a solid sawn rim joist? Those staining patterns are more what I would expect to see with something like particle board. Do you have a pic of the exterior opposite that interior photo or was that staining characteristic through out the basement? Did you scan or probe with your moisture meter? Chris, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Water saturated masonry will wick up like a sponge. Lots of ground water in this area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Hi Erby, Are you sure it's a rim joist? Like Chris said, it's wicking water like hardboard does. Odd configuration; notched joist ends with a sill plate on top and what looks like blocking between joist ends on the bottom to prevent overturning. Is that some kind of hardboard or cellulose sheathing behind brick? What's that house sided with; can't really make it out - it's too grainy on my monitor - but it looks like it's either painted brick or stucco - heavy window ledges - brick? I'm thinking lack of weeps and painted brick that can't dry to the outside. Alternatively, I'm thinking it's an area that gets cold enough for a lot of Seattle sunshine that's drained onto the garage floor and evaporated to condense into water on an uninsulated rim joist and wick up into the wood.. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Agree with all previous. Water wicking up into mfg. material is what it looks like. Water creeping down the foundation along the sill, could be from just about anything, including a overflowing downspout, leaky pipe, etc. Was it wet? Did you stick the pins in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghentjr Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 This is a simple one. Look at how little overhang there is on the back. In the winter the gutter is "ice damming" and leaking into the attic plate and behind the siding. It runs down the tyvek or whatever other paper is used and collects where you see the stains. Tell them to install a gutter heater next winter, turn it on when ice is expected and see if the problem goes away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Originally posted by hausdok Hi Erby, Are you sure it's a rim joist? Like Chris said, it's wicking water like hardboard does. Odd configuration; notched joist ends with a sill plate on top and what looks like blocking between joist ends on the bottom to prevent overturning. Is that some kind of hardboard or cellulose sheathing behind brick? Yeah, why would they need the notches and blocking if there was an actual rim joist. It definitely looks like hardboard when I blow the photo up and I don't think anyone ever was stupid enough to make a joist out of that stuff. I'm also interested if you metered the stains on the "wood". The stains on the concrete below would indicate at least one session of water running, almost pouring, down the concrete, but if it was active and an ongoing thing I'd expect a lot more rust on those tools. No conclusions really, but I wonder if the area was left exposed to a rainstorm at some time during construction, siding, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted November 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 See clarifications in original post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 I'll toss in one other WAG. The wall staining, lack of mold, etc, would suggest a lot of water at a single time rather than a slow insiduous leak. Might someone have hosed down the inside of the garage? It's awful clean looking for its age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence McCann Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Originally posted by Richard Moore I don't think anyone ever was stupid enough I use to think that way once upon a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 I'm still troubled with the rim material. Regular dimensional lumber resists absorption through the sidewall of the cells and one normally doesn't see that kind of staining. The only other place I've seen that odd pattern, besides on hardboard, was where the wood had a nest of termites inhabiting its core and their nasty damp interior environment had caused the stains. OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Does Kentucky get big ice dams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocon Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 This is basicaly an early form of a rain screen wall. I believe the problem lies in the paint used on the brick. I believe it is thermaly driven vapor causing condensation on the inside of the masonry veneer, where it runs down to the foundation where it pools causing the staining on the masonite like board used at the rim and possible extending vertically on the outside of the framing. Given the age of the building there is no vapor barrier in the wall. The paint on the wall has created a vapor barrier at the exterior of the wall. Kentucky gets cold yes? I do not see any vents on the side of the building or roof that would indicate that the house has no ventilation fans for the bathrooms. (bathrooom windows don't count since most people do not use them in the winter) All of the humidity of the building is trapped, it needs a way out. Note: I would first try to rule out that the windows are leaking allowing water into the brick veneer. The vapor barrier condition still exists even if the windows are the major source of water. Your recomended solution should be two fold. 1. The air gap needs to be weeped. Small holes can be drilled from the outside through the grout at the foundation line, Holes every 12" should be adequate. You could also vent the air gap in the wall but this might be excessive for the condition. 2. Add bathroom vents vented to the exterior. I always specify a timer type switch that starts with the lights coming on in the room and goes for a designated amount of time (IE. 15-30 minutes.) Go to http://www.gobrick.com/html/frmset_thnt.htm read Technical note 27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghentjr Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Originally posted by kurt Does Kentucky get big ice dams? Not sure, but they do get snow. (Don't they?) It could also just be a clogged gutter with overflowing water. What the hell do I know. Just guessin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonguy Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Hi, Where is the staining of the rim joist located in relation to the garage door? Is it right above? Perhaps there is moisture trapped in the air space behind the brick veneer which trickles down to unproperly flashed garage doors. Is the flashing allowing for drainage of the brick wall above it? It is also hard to see if there is cracking in the stucco where moisture could penetrate, but it looks like a big crack running just above the garage doors. Tough to see from the pics. Take your time, and put it all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Remas Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 weep holes and flashing issue if it is brick veneer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfSwamp Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Originally posted by kurt Does Kentucky get big ice dams? Being one state south, and having been to KY a fair bit lately, I can tell you that major ice/snow is unusual in KY/TN, but it's unpredictable. I've seen two days here in Nashville when the thermometer read 15 below. Wind chill was 50 below. But heck, I got 18 inches of snow in SC in 73. Al Gore lives right up the road. Maybe I'll go ask him... WJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 "Al Gore lives right up the road. Maybe I'll go ask him..." Walter, you might want to wait until tomorrow. The man obviously likes his food and I would imagine that he is currently in a deep, tryptophan induced, coma. That's my own "activity" plan for later today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence McCann Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Originally posted by Richard Moore "Al Gore lives right up the road. Maybe I'll go ask him..." Walter, you might want to wait until tomorrow. The man obviously likes his food and I would imagine that he is currently in a deep, tryptophan induced, coma. That's my own "activity" plan for later today. BTW Richard, great avatar. Your pooch I presume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mridgeelk Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 The subfloor boards appear to be recycled. Any chance that the rim was recycled and the staining occured in another location? Originally posted by Erby I don't want to prejudice you with my opinion so I'll just post the pictures and see what y'all think. This is the back of the 58 year old brick veneer house. Image Insert: 149.77 KB Water is wicking up from the sill plate into the rim joist area all along the back wall. The sill plate is above the basement garage doors. The sill plate is NOT below ground level. No "obvious" source of water in the rim joist area. No pipes, etc. Moisture meter said it was dry at time of inspection but who can remember the last time we had any decent rain around here. Image Insert: 143.87 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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