Jeremy Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Well, I'll throw one more curiousity out here, Why do insurance companies prefer the roof to be walked when safe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Well, Looks like I got some good discussion going here even if a few would like to hang me from a B-vent on a high roof. Nah, don't sweat it; this happens whenever the walking on roof topic comes up. It'll help folks blow off steam. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 And for cryin' out loud, HIs ought to drop the silly Manliness Contest. Walking roofs doesn't prove manliness. We have no fear of falling off roofs 'cuz we are men. "Men can take anything..." [utube] " type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="344"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Well, Looks like I got some good discussion going here even if a few would like to hang me from a B-vent on a high roof. Nah. Talkin' about walkin' on roofs is tossin' firecrackers into the outhouse. Lottsa s**t gets blown around and a**holes runnin' everywhere......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Why do insurance companies prefer the roof to be walked when safe? Their actuarial statisticians told them so. Otherwise, insurance guys don't move off the dime about anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Why do insurance companies prefer the roof to be walked when safe? Their actuarial statisticians told them so. Otherwise, insurance guys don't move off the dime about anything. Uh, huh... Somebody say, "I'm good." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I don't walk all roofs but I always bring a fiddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I'd be ashamed if I wouldn't at least go as high as the sewer-scope guy! Click to Enlarge 101.19 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I think the sewer scope guy is looking for attorneys.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Going in through a vent stack is not uncommon. If there's no cleanouts, it's the easiest way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted March 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Hi, That fellow and his brother are practically artists with that thing. Good work for a fair price. If you're an inspector in King and Snohomish Counties, those are the guys you can safely refer your clients to and be confident they won't try and upsell a hugely expensive and unnecessary job. Hydrophysics Pipe Inspection Rick Delemare 425-775-8445 www.hydrophysics-wa.com ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmiller Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Great subject and obviously controversial. First all of all safety is paramount. Any inspector traversing a roof has to keep that in mind. That said, I am surprised when inspectors say that they flat out will not walk on any roof. I have walked too many roofs to see what I would have missed, had I stood at the edge, on top of a ladder. While there are times that I will not walk on a roof because of the potential to damage it, or myself, these are cases that are far and few between. And certainly I agree if the roof is obviously toast, I will not even waste my time, but just refer it to a roofing specialist. This has nothing to do with testosterone. If you are charging a "full inspection fee", for a "complete home inspection" then accessing the roof to inspect it is just part of the job description. Just like any other professional that has to access the roof for their job. Hell, even the satellite dish guys go up on roofs. Saying you can inspect the roof sufficiently with binoculars, from the ground, is laughable. And while you may convince real estate agents and your clients that this is acceptable, you are not going to convince me or any of the other inspectors that routinely traverse roofs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hspinnler Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 [speaking just for myself, if an HI can make a decent assessment of a roof ... from the attic I say he's doing fine. WJ I guess you're only speaking for yourself, but how does a H.I. determine the condition of a roof from the attic. We're not talking leakage. I did not walk the section with the obvious deflection. After going inside, I found that a section of roof joining two dwelling units was framed with 2" x 4" rafters and ridge board. (Pics 1-3) It pays to check "under the hood" first because on more than one occasion, I have found a shingled over cut-out for a removed (new roof - existing construction) or missing (new construction) passive vent. Hate to unexpectedly step through one of those (Pic 4) Click to Enlarge 96.67 KB Click to Enlarge 51.03 KB Click to Enlarge 50.28 KB Click to Enlarge 52.22 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Just so it's known, I'm not physically able to walk every roof there is. I also really don't care (anymore) if other inspectors walk roofs. I used to, because I also used to care how HIs were perceived as a profession. I had to give that up a while ago. Me, I'd love to hear from any HI who's done, say, 4,000 - 5,000 HI jobs and has never had a complaint from a customer, and has never refunded a fee nor paid out his deductible on a roof claim. Also, I'd like to hear from the HIs who have a career-long complaint rate of less than 1/2 of one percent (essentially zero). I stopped counting quite a few years ago at 10,000. My career "complaints" are significantly less than 1/2 of one percent. It's not because I do less and disclaim more. I'm convinced it's probably because I go into, over and through more of a building than most in this biz. The other benefit is that folks typically are willing to pay me 70-100% more than other inspectors in the area. The argument that a non-roof walker hasn't missed any major issues, based on the lack of complaints or legal actions, might be hard to prove as well. "Just my humble observation, but neither customers nor RE agents nor builders know if the HI missed something. Also, in my humble experience, most HIs I've run across don't know they missed anything, either." -WJ "Lawsuits are expensive and time-consuming. It's almost always cheaper to fix problems out of one's own pocket than to hire counsel and go to court." -WJ Will one traverser offer one true story of finding a noteworthy roof defect that he knows a previous HI missed? Sure. How many do you want? It's not just roof issues. There's been flashings, chimneys, venting and decking issues that have been missed as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Now, you can take this with a grain of salt, but the inspection I did yesterday, the realtor told me the house was inspected 2 weeks ago. The deal fell thru because of mortgage problems and there were no problems with the roof. Click to Enlarge 59.39 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Lewis Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Darren, I'm assuming that the flashing, or lack of, wasn't visible from the ground. No problem for Sir Walter. He would anticipate that the flashing was screwed up and just write it up as such. Now I see how easy H.I. work is, while being right and truthful, too.[:-bulb] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspectorjoe Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I was glad to see that you edited your post and removed the veiled threat WJ. Maybe no one but me saw it. I'm glad I did though. I'd comment further, but I'm probably already putting my business and other assets at risk ........ if you catch my drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Morrison Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Seems to me that whenever this subject comes up, HI's on both sides of the ladder experience an acute tightening of their scrotum for reasons I shall never understand. Climb 'em or don't; and if you want to tell us why, that's very generous of you, but please don't burst a blood vessel over how someone else inspects a roof. I'm pretty sure there are other areas of your lives more deserving of that energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Yep! When the contestants in a pissing contest get face to face, there are no winners!. Gentlemen, remember where you are and let's keep this civil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Double yep. Walter and I differ on this one, but his position is certainly reasonable. More than once I've found myself on particularly high and/or steep roofs and thought to myself, "You are absolutely f**king nuts . . . risking life and limb for six hundred bucks. Your clients certainly wouldn't risk their lives for you for six hundred bucks." Then again, lack of complaints or not, there are things I see when I skitter with the squirrels that no one ever could have spotted from the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Seems to me that whenever this subject comes up, HI's on both sides of the ladder experience an acute tightening of their scrotum for reasons I shall never understand. Climb 'em or don't; and if you want to tell us why, that's very generous of you, but please don't burst a blood vessel over how someone else inspects a roof. I'm pretty sure there are other areas of your lives more deserving of that energy. A big amen to that. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Is walking the roof really the issue? I am with Jim M and Jim K. I have walked thousands of roofs and, at times, have had another inspector walk the roof on my behalf. I have also done several hundred inspections with no roof walking. I understand both sides of the issue. Really what we are talking about is client expectations and our ability to control them. More specifically the ability to 1. converse with client 2. write about what we did and saw. I have become an old inspector that is beginning to believe this job is all about thinking, talkiing and writing. I think of my inspection as a performance. You certainly can perform with nothing lacking in the "product". I have often wondered why I feel a kinship with some of the old birds on this forum and a similiar feeling about some of the newer folks. For instance, Chad and I always seemed to get along and I have never been face to face with him. I met Brian G, then started reading his postings with respect. Same could be said of Jim K and several others. There is another thread started by Jeremy about being a "noobie" and my first thought was "Here we go again, a person that has done a little maintenance around the house, watched some late night television and now wants to do inspections on the side and send a full time guy to the poor house." But, I may find he is a bright guy that has given this business a bunch of thought and consideration. He just might be another Jodi, Frank or Mark! That would be good. I know that walking a roof or not walking a roof will not keep you out of the poor house nor out of court. Bet you most of you will be sued a hundred times more than Walter and me. Call me arrogant or stupid if you will, but until we learn better communication skills we are all subject to the whims of dis-satisfied clients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 FTR that was JeremyDP. Not Jeremy of Canaan Property inspections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubrooks Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Walking roof? A lot of town homes in this area are 3+ stories. A 40-foot extension might make it. But honestly, I, by myself, don't want to try to manhandle a Type 1A 32 foot ladder around other people's property and cars much less a 40 footer. Oops! sorry neighbor! I didn't mean to drop a 75 pound ladder on your 120K Mercedes! I do own a high power set of binoculars and I will take the time to try to maneuver to see all the roof surface. I had one town house that I had to walk back a block and a half to be able to see the back side roof. Good thing. Apparently, a recent tornado had just touched the surface of the roof and ripped off shingles and underlayment in about a 4' diameter circle down to the sheathing. Of course, water damage was noticeable in the attic and ceiling of the top floor, but it was nice to know why. I walk roofs when I feel absolutely comfortable doing so. Two inspectors in my ASHI chapter have experience roof falls in the past year. One has had 2 bouts of surgery on his foot. The other, well, the paramedics didn't think he was going to make it. They called ahead to the hospital to have the chaplain wait with the inspector's wife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Yesterday I came across one I had to walk. A cape with too many additions; and the listing says newer roof. It looked a little DIY from the ground. From the flat roof on the front porch I took a running start at the valley, I only made it half way up before I started to slip. This slope was all new including the ply. The back side was much easier since they shingled a hidden valley over the old open double cut valley making very nice foot holds to get to the ridge, 14/12 pitch. Check out the B-E-A-utiful flashing job... Click to Enlarge 83.3 KB I needed something to do while I waited for the RE to show up and let me in the house anyway. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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