John Dirks Jr Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Regarding walking on the roof, the Maryland SOP states, A home inspector is not required to: Walk on or access a roof where it could damage the roof or roofing material or be unsafe to the home inspector. John, Don't think SOP - think standard of care. Folks comply with SOPs all the time and still get sued and get judgments against them. Until I'd seen it tested in court, multiple times, and it held up, I wouldn't get too comfortable hiding behind an SOP. Just about all of those things specifically state that there's nothing prohibiting an inspector from exceeding those standards; and, if most are exceeding the standards, the standard of care might just be the one that judges look at because it does more to protect the consumer than the SOP does. Could be wrong - have been many times - as Walter will tell you. I generally spout off about all sorts of stuff I have no inkling about. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike I know I didn't say so in my initial post but I do walk every roof that I can if it doesn't pose too much of a danger. After all, getting on any roof poses some degree of danger. The question is, how much risk is each individual willing to tolerate? I've scared myself a few times. I'm sure I'll scare myself some more in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Lewis Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Where do we get such men? And why do we allow them to make rules and write nonsense?WJ Obviously from people who are trying to be better inspectors than writers. Being able to "figure things out" without taking some risk or getting dirty just doesn't jibe in the world of home inspecting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Tell us (again) the story where they brought the HI defendant into the courtroom in chains............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 It's hard for me to understand a complete or thorough inspection without getting on to the roof. Fame or no fame. Even when it is mostly covered with snow, there is typically many areas exposed that can give clues to the condition. Safety is one thing, but walking roofs is a skill that any HI should be maintaning or at least attempting to improve like any other skill. I thought the client would expect to know about all the "visibly accessible" areas of the home. If people are looking for education, through well written columns and articles, I see it as a duty for the writer to tell them the facts. Otherwise wouldn't it just be contributing to HI folklore? You can't possibly see from the ground what you can see from walking the roof. Buyer's that believe this have unfortunately been misinformed. (Like seeing in walls with infared?) Sure there are the ones that you can tell from the ground needs reroof and doesn't have a chimney or other large penetrations/obstructions. But if your not writing the roof from the ground, it warrants a closer look in my opion. Respectfully... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 In the meantime, common sense tells me that the climb/no climb decision should be left up to the guy who's about to climb something. Of course, this is common sense, know your own limitations. An HI shouldn't be expected to go on to every roof, but I think general roof walking is a skill that buyers should be aware, and consider when hiring an inspector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfSwamp Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Tell us (again) the story where they brought the HI defendant into the courtroom in chains............ OK, but just because you're my buddy... I got hired for a standard-of-care case in a little town north of here. The cast of characters included: *The lawyer on my side. *The lawyer on the other side, who represented the builder, who'd hired the errant HI to do his dirty work. *The builder, who was the errant HI's boss. *The errant HI. *The judge. *Me The case involved a house with a sorry-ass "positive drain" around the crawl space perimeter. Plenty of pics of the crawl, with plenty of water down there, along with wet walls, trenches, halfass gravel bed, etc. With the exception of the lawyer on my side and the judge, there were precious few IQ points present in the room. (I'll just dismiss myself from the IQ issue for now...) Anyhow, the judge walked in and we got busy. As is typical, the defendant builder and his hillbilly lawyer, being short on smarts and high on testosterone, mostly wanted to beat up my lawyer and me. I got the usual, "Judge, Jowers has never even built a house!" Anyhow, as the trial went on, and I explained what was wrong with the wretched crawl-space trenching, etc. I kept hearing the bailiff whisper a name to the judge, which I'll change to protect the ignert. "Boner," the bailiff said to the judge, "I need to get Billy Boner out of his cell." So, we took a break, the bailiff walked down the hall, and came back a few minutes later leading a man who was chained at the ankles and wrists, and who was clanking along like Marley's Ghost. It was Billy Boner, fresh from the drunk tank, where he'd been kept the night before, on a DUI charge. Boner took his place in the witness chair. I fought mightily to keep my mouth shut, but I really wanted to yell out, "Jeezus, judge, just look at him. What more do you need to know? The defendant is in stripes and chains. He was rip-roaring drunk just hours ago. He's a menace to himself and others." But I kept quiet. And my side won the case. The lawyer bought my lunch. I left with a decent check. The whole event brought to mind brother Bill Loden's statement: "Don't tell my mama I'm a home inspector. She thinks I play piano in a whorehouse." WJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Regarding walking on the roof, the Maryland SOP states, A home inspector is not required to: Walk on or access a roof where it could damage the roof or roofing material or be unsafe to the home inspector. Is that from the SOP, word for word? Because if it is, the writer ran off the rails. Either the writer is calling the HI "it;" or, the writer is saying that a roof could damage the roof. Or both. Where do we get such men? And why do we allow them to make rules and write nonsense? WJ No Walter, That's not direct from their SOP. It's from a comparison document that I did where I kind of dissected all of the SOP's and stacked the applicable portions side-by-side in order to compare them to one another. Still, I guess most of us illiterates are able to figure out what "it" is in this context - when we're not showing off and sucking up to realtors, that is. [:-smile_g Say, I just had a thought; you and Mike Holmes should hook up - then the two of you could really expose the illiterate, illogical and incompetent underbelly of the home inspection world. [] ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 In the meantime, common sense tells me that the climb/no climb decision should be left up to the guy who's about to climb something. Of course, this is common sense, know your own limitations. An HI shouldn't be expected to go on to every roof, but I think general roof walking is a skill that buyers should be aware, and consider when hiring an inspector. I agree completely. I've said on many occasions that if a typical local HI climbed up on my roof without my permission, I'd shoot him in the azz with my pellet gun. WJ That should go for the typical roofer in your area as well; that is if you don't want them walking on your ridge cap and in the center of the valley. Come on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Hell, Maybe I shouldn't respond to stuff until I've had my 4th cup of coffee in the morning. I'd thought that was the A.I.I. post you'd responded to. Still, odd how close it resembles the stuff that the AII guys say. No matter, it worked anyway. You're right about gibberish getting people in trouble though; just look how quickly Dubya became late night comedy fodder. [] ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Thing is, some of us are able to charge more because we do more. Hopping on a roof--for me, anyway--has nothing to do with testosterone, but rather with providing exemplary service. My business relies on client referrals, and when clients know I busted my hump for them, they spread the word. The photos are from a house I checked out yesterday. I wouldn't have seen the rusted cap or known the wood beneath the cap was rotted if I hadn't scrabbled up the roof. And I surely wouldn't have seen the photo-electric sensor--the purpose of which I still have no clue--at the base of the chimney. Big deals? Of course not. But when a client sees a photo taken from the top of the roof, along with photos of crawlspace and attic innards, he knows I earned my outrageous fee. Click to Enlarge 54.21 KB Click to Enlarge 42.13 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Thing is, some of us are able to charge more because we do more. Hopping on a roof--for me, anyway--has nothing to do with testosterone, but rather with providing exemplary service. It's amazing how many folks haven't figured this out. I don't carry the extension ladder because I think it makes me look cool. I carry it because it makes me money. I don't do this thing out of magnaminity, I do it to put foccacia on the table. The ladder helps me do that. And, I get to climb on the roof, which is it's own reward. Getting on roofs is the coolest part of the job. Click to Enlarge 30.86 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Foccacia? First whey powder and now this; where have we TIJers failed with Kurt? Oh, woe is me! ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 I do it to put foccacia on the table. (Kurt) Yuppie scum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Morrison Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Failed him? We haven't failed him. He's dead-right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Failed him? We haven't failed him. He's dead-right. Yeah, you might be right; if I ate that foccacia and whey stuff I might be dead too. Anyone got a pound of lard to spare; I'm all out. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Manor Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Anyone got a pound of lard to spare; I'm all out. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Sure, I got plenty around my middle. [] -Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Amaral Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Something tells me that Mr. Jowizz doesn't eat focaccia....or wear funny monk-like sandals... I may be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 It's hard for me to understand a complete or thorough inspection without getting on to the roof. Fame or no fame. Even when it is mostly covered with snow, there is typically many areas exposed that can give clues to the condition. Safety is one thing, but walking roofs is a skill that any HI should be maintaning or at least attempting to improve like any other skill. I thought the client would expect to know about all the "visibly accessible" areas of the home. If people are looking for education, through well written columns and articles, I see it as a duty for the writer to tell them the facts. Otherwise wouldn't it just be contributing to HI folklore? You can't possibly see from the ground what you can see from walking the roof. Buyer's that believe this have unfortunately been misinformed. (Like seeing in walls with infared?) Sure there are the ones that you can tell from the ground needs reroof and doesn't have a chimney or other large penetrations/obstructions. But if your not writing the roof from the ground, it warrants a closer look in my opion. Respectfully... If you ever find yourself in or near assbackwards Nashville, feel free to call me and take a walk around a typical local McMansion and/or brick rancher. First, you'll learn that we get snow very rarely, and if an HI has to look at a snowed-on roof, he'll just wait until the snow melts. You'll also learn that McMansions contain many easily-accessible viewports (dormers, windows, etc.). You'll learn that the local roofers are so bad at installing flashing that any bright middle-school kid could say that all the flashings are bad on every house, and he'd be right. The roofs on the brick ranchers are easily observed from the ground. If the observer writes an adequate and truthful report, and that report meets the requirements of the customer, draws the praise of the lawyer(s), and, along with thousands of other reports, draws no criticism or complaint at all, then it would be hard to prove that the observer didn't do an adequate job, especially in a state that doesn't require that observer to get on a roof. (We don't have to comment on bugs or fungus, either.) Sure, the local bar is set low. That's the way local HIs and the state reps want it. Finally, if you find yourself in our fair city, you might get to meet a widely-published and brilliant roof consultant whom I work with sometimes; and, you might meet a brilliant and thorough construction-defects lawyer who understands that the words in the HI report must be well-crafted by a competent writer, not lifted from semi-literate HI-software boilerplate, nor from the minds of undereducated observers. WJ How tempting WJ. I'm somewhat familiar with the territory, I was your neighbor for 16 years and thoroughly enjoyed living there. Up to this point I'll consider myself fortunate that I have not met your posse, but may take you up on it someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jferry Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Never, repeat EN-EE-VEE-EE-ARE, walk on a roof. Ever. Not required. Dangerous. May damage roof. Does not tell you anything you wouldn't find out by going in the attic. And Darren and Mike O'H, I know, you "ALWAYS" walk the roof. So save your breath. I won't be monitoring replies to this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Never, repeat EN-EE-VEE-EE-ARE, walk on a roof. Ever. Not required. Dangerous. May damage roof. Does not tell you anything you wouldn't find out by going in the attic. And Darren and Mike O'H, I know, you "ALWAYS" walk the roof. So save your breath. I won't be monitoring replies to this post. Well, I'm glad that's settled. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 What was that sound? Dang, I could have sworn I heard Nick belch. OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 And Darren and Mike O'H, I know, you "ALWAYS" walk the roof. So save your breath. I won't be monitoring replies to this post. Oh stop , Joe. You're addicted to the intellect. It's a twelve step process to get away from name calling and contention. You're at step four. We'll help you, friend. We'll help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Brother o' mine......sweet corn is only a distant dream right about now. jeeezus, every time I hear that story about "billy" the HI in chains, I go off on a laughing jag. You couldn't make that up. And in the interest of good spelling and culture, I misspelled focaccia. It's FOCACCIA, not foccacia. That's how you get the hard c and then the "sh" sound in the right place. fo - KASH' - ia Little extra virgin olive oil (first squeeze), some Pecorino Romano, mmmmmmmm......... Brought to you this evening by a ladder monkey........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Hey! No talking about peckers and Ms. Romano da voigin and smearing 'er wit olive oil or wuddever you said. Dis is a classy joint; no doity minds here! Da noive a dis guy! OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofthehouse Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Well, Looks like I got some good discussion going here even if a few would like to hang me from a B-vent on a high roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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