Richard Moore Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Your guess is as good as mine. [:-bigeyes This plumbing from the drain valve (20 year old water heater) went into the attic on this rambler, but I couldn't see where it went from there. No circ pump if that's anyone's guess. I think it may have gone to the laundry closet, but no idea why they would take it from the drain valve. Click to Enlarge 50.08 KB Click to Enlarge 54.32 KB Then there was the cold water feed to the water heater. A stop valve either side of the tee but none that would actually allow the water heater to be isolated for change-out and leave cold water to the house. Click to Enlarge 57.01 KB Maybe that is what this in the crawl is for... Click to Enlarge 42.72 KB I'm recommending the new water heater be installed by a licensed plumber who can figure out this mess. I'm thinking the water-heater-only guys would be as confused as I was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garet Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Are the plumbing supply lines run in the attic? If so it may be a gravity hot water circulation system (no pump involved). I'm considering installing one on my own house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 I think it's someone's homemade tempering system and the upper valve on the inlet line controls how much cold water flows to the hot side somewhere in the house. I think the line at the bottom is functioning like a gravity loop. the hot water rises, like it does in a hot water system and as the water up at the top cools it returns to the water heater via that doohickey installed where the drain sillcock should be. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike (Ah, I see that Garet and I had the same thought.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted February 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Are the plumbing supply lines run in the attic? If so it may be a gravity hot water circulation system (no pump involved). I'm considering installing one on my own house. Yes, at least some of them. Let's assume the house was plumbed for return to the tank, do you think there would be enough convection flow for that to be effective for a rambler with the bathrooms at the other end of the home from the water heater? I have my doubts! There sure wasn't "instant" hot water at those bathrooms. Of course, the valve may have been closed. I was too busy scratching my head to bother trying it. "Homemade tempering system"...I guess I'd have to ask why? Home was plain Jane 90's, 3 Br 1¾ Ba, apart from this set-up. Wouldn't it have been simpler to install a tempered tub/shower faucet system at the bathroom if they really needed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 This is a wild stab that would leave you wondering more but here goes. Could the attic piping be somehow connected to the rain gutter system? Maybe it's some idea of how to capture rain water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ghent Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Water can't flow uphill. Wish it could. The device on the bottom looks like a flow control from a hydronic system and (pic not clear) as mike said it would make sense to limit the flow back from a tempering system set up this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Maxwell Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 the water jugs in the crawl are left over from Y2K......don't drink it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fqp25 Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Plumbed for future PV Solar panels???? Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben H Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 the water jugs in the crawl are left over from Y2K......don't drink it... Or prep for 2012...[:-eyebrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Lozier Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 the water jugs in the crawl are left over from Y2K......don't drink it... Or prep for 2012...[:-eyebrow good point.... plenty of water for those tea bags in 2012?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosier inspector Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 Were there water lines going to the furnace? This could be a heat source. That would explain the two gate valves to isolate the loop in case the coil in the furnace started to leak. It would need a circulation pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted March 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 Were there water lines going to the furnace? No furnace. Just individual electric wall heaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barlyhop Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 None of this makes any sense, the suspense is killing me! Always trying to solve a mystery. Hope someone can figure this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted March 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 OK...I heard from the agent today. I'm not sure this makes any sense, and it is secondhand, but according to her the seller, who wasn't the one who originally installed this, says it is some type of circulation system to "use the hot air in the attic to help heat the water". He also said that the "pump" was in plain view in the attic. I'm guessing he meant this white box thing that was buried behind about 12 feet of junk stored in front of it. Click to Enlarge 56.97 KB Nothing I've ever seen before. Just looked like more "stuff" to me. Oh, and it also turns out that he discovered I'm not "ASHI certified" and, therefore, supposedly unqualified to suggest my client even ask him about this. [:-banghea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barlyhop Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 I'm now convinced that this was a solar hot water set-up at some point in time. Copyright: Solar Developement, Inc. Florida Download Attachment: solar1.pdf 18.08 KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted March 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 I'm now convinced that this was a solar hot water set-up at some point in time. Copyright: Solar Developement, Inc. Florida Download Attachment: solar1.pdf 18.08 KB I don't think so. Along with being the original, 20-year old water heater, it looked to be the original roofing and had no signs of anything ever being mounted on it. But...who knows? It is possible they planned for one and never installed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barlyhop Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 How warm can an attic get in Seattle? I would also doubt the efficiency of solar power in Seattle as well?? Perhaps that is why the system was abandoned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 How warm can an attic get in Seattle? I would also doubt the efficiency of solar power in Seattle as well?? Perhaps that is why the system was abandoned? Well, if it's anything like Portland, a few hours to the south, it can get up to 180 degees. Solar water and PV panels do very well here as well, even on overcast days. -Jim Katen, Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barlyhop Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Seems that Geothermal would be more efficient and a lot cheaper there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 Seems that Geothermal would be more efficient and a lot cheaper there! Geothermal is efficient anywhere. But it's not cheap. Right now, PV is actually a very good deal. - Jim Katen, Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 PV is a fool's errand. On a small scale it works just fine, but when you want to power anything bigger than a calculator or charge the battery in your cell phone the complexity of the system compounds the pay back to well beyond the service life of the equipment. Just looking at the fundamental purpose of residential PV systems proves my point: convert the tiniest portion of energy from daylight into electricity and store it in a battery so that we can flip a switch and turn on the lights. It's kinda funny when you think about it. If PV were a practical and scalable solution it would have been advanced as far as the laser has been in the last 50 years. As far as solar thermal working well in the North, one of the largest US manufacturers of solar thermal technology is in Ithica, NY. They have dozens of functional systems in their community form simple thermosyphon DHW systems to car wash water heating systems. Even at this latitude in winter, a system must be fully charged with Heat Transfer Fluid and the controls fully functioning before the collectors can be installed or the HTF will flash to steam and blow up the manifolds. From at or near freezing to steam in a couple of minutes, how's that for collector efficiency? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 Geothermal is efficient anywhere. But it's not cheap. Right now, PV is actually a very good deal. PV still isn't a good deal. The real pay back, (not the subsidized pay back) is at least 30 years if there are no equipment failures. That said, I got a quote today for a 5kW system because with subsidies the price per watt is under $2. I don't think it'll ever be more affordable for the individual or more expensive for the masses than it is right now. I'm jumping into the wallets of every New Yorker and every US citizen and I'm going to spend the money I take on my electric bill. By the way, I'd like to thank each of you for contributing your portion of my solar system. Sadly, I won't be sharing any savings I experience by selling my surplus power back to my utility at the government mandated full retail price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 As long as your in my pocket, don't forget to check if your County has accepted the sales tax exemption on alternative energy projects. Your vendor will usually try to keep that spiff for themselves, but you should get it if you ask for it. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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