Ryan Star Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 What would you cite is occurring as happening with the wood in this photo? Note that the vent plate was recently reattached. It had fallen down due to what is going on here. Is this rot or staining or other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 It helps to have an establishing shot to see what we're looking at, and a close up. Looks like crappy sheathing, water damaged maybe/probably. Could be scorch marks from fire; hard to say without better pics. With that goofy vent reattachment, it says the rest of it could be just about anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 I'd say stained and moisture damaged. Is that screws driven up into the sheathing? If so, that's messed up. What is it venting and is there a hood on the exterior side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Star Posted March 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 It is venting from a bathroom. No fire damage. I took an up close pic to show the wood to ask opinions on it. Is this something a professional inspector should call out in a report to a potential home owner if the inspector saw it and took a picture of it but made no mention of it? Thanks all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 I'd have checked the area with a moisture meter. If excessive moisture was there, I would report on it. If it were dry, it's hard to say without being there and seeing more than what the picture you posted shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Whitmore Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 From what I can see, I don't think the sheathing is rotted. I would have looked, prodded, and then gone right on by if it wasn't. Or, depending on my mood, I would have documented it as an FYI, that is of course assuming that it's not an ongoing issue and isn't rotted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeboy Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 Thats from a detached fan pushing moisture against the sheathing. The only way to see if it is still good is to probe it. Id recommend caulking the crap out of the punctures if those fasteners went thought towards the roof. You can paint on some sort of epoxy product to stop the decay. Im sure someone will recommend one to you from this site. Should have been easily noticed from 10 ft away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 What would you cite is occurring as happening with the wood in this photo? Note that the vent plate was recently reattached. It had fallen down due to what is going on here. Is this rot or staining or other? During the time that the bath fan was detached, it vented warm, moist air into the attic. In the cold winter months, that moist air condensed on the underside of the OSB sheathing and, over time, caused the outer strands to delaminate. I'll bet you lunch at Michael's Italian Beef & Sausage Co. on Sandy Avenue, in Portland, OR, that the damage is purely superficial. But don't let that stop you. Go ahead and sue your home inspector. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 I've found about half a dozen done like that. They all had that same leakage and the OSB was delaminating around them exactly as it is in that photo. Instead of spending $20 on a decent rain cap with a male extension that goes completely through the roof and is seamless, they screwed a homemade flange beneath a hole on the underside of the roof and installed the connector between the fan and the roof. On the other side of the deck is a jack vent. The homemade flange isn't sealed to the underside of the roof and the mesh in the jack gets clogged with dust sent up there by the fan (A regular rain cap uses mesh with a larger grid that dust passes through). If the hole in the roof is smaller than the connector and causes a restriction or the dust accumulation becomes too great, air gets pushed out between the flange and the roof and that moisture condenses on the cold OSB at nights, in winter and on the shaded side of the roof. Fungi spore finds that moisture and starts to feed on the starches and sugars on the OSB. The deck eventually starts to rot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Star Posted March 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Thanks everyone for your input. So here is the whole story... I had an inspection done on new house here and the unreported findings that I have a problem with are found here in this pics (taken from the report I got): Three issues found, two with the roof vent pipes there and one with water on the floor in the basement. No where in the report did it say anything about roof staining or, what appeared/appears to me to be the underside of my roof rotting and thus the vent plate detatching and falling down. So we moved forward with the purchase of the house and shortly after moving in I had my brother in law (who does construction) climb into the attic to reattach the vents, and he was greeted with this. One vent down, the (I'm calling it rotting) so bad the screws detatched holding up the plate came undone). The other was loose and at a down slope of the tube mid section it was full of ice. So naturally I complained to the inspection company. Below is the email chain which I have blanked out personal information: From: Me Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 12:33 PM To: (leaving their email address out of it, but their general email address here) Subject: Inspection (home address) Attached are two pictures of the inspection report picture page in which you can clearly see for one of the vents on the roof having mold. The other vent tube hole to the roof (which you cannot see the roof vent hole pictured but it is clearly visible when looking up at the roof from the access hole when the inspector took the pictures) is more rotted with mold. So basically two vents have the issue. This mold was not noted anywhere in the inspection report done by XXX even though you can clearly see the one roof vent in the picture having it. Obviously I am very unhappy something so obvious was missed and I would like some sort of compensation for this for the impending repair that we now have to make at our cost. Please call me on my cell at XXX-XXX-XXXX for any questions. Thanks Me ************************************* From: Company owner name Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 9:11 PM To: Me Subject: Attic moisture Staining Hi Me, I have looked at the report and talked to my inspector about this situation. The staining around the vent pipe I am seeing in the picture that Kevin had in the report is a very common occurrence in attics. This is something we see every day that is not a big concern. There doesn?t appear to be any rotted decking just moisture deterioration. The vents need to be sealed better to prevent more deterioration but there is no need to do anything to the areas since they are in the attic and nobody will be in contact with the surfaces. I have to disagree with you saying that he missed this when the picture in the report shows that Kevin clearly didn?t miss it. The extent of deterioration in his opinion was not large enough to make it a main concern. I don?t feel that we have any liability in this matter. Regards, Company owner Owner Inspection company name *****************************************************8 I have sent numerous follow up emails to this person to discuss it further with no further communication. So before I take this further I wanted opinions on what (if any) leg I had to stand on here. Bottom line is the inspector took the picture and you can CLEARLY see a dark spot there, but he made no mention of it in the report nor investigated it further. To me, I am at least entitled to a refund. Am I off base? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Meiland Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Yeah, pretty much. It doesn't warrant a significant repair. Any half-decent contractor-type is going to re-attach the pipe in a few minutes, using fiendish cleverness to outwit the circumstances. You don't need to strip the roof and replace the sheet. Nothing is going to happen because of that discoloration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Whitmore Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 OP-- it is my opinion that you are making an issue out of nothing. Fix the cause (detached / poorly sealed vent), and move on with life. You can clearly see the discoloration in the inspector's report, so it's not like the inspector didn't see it. Heck, he saw the stains ,which is what clued him in to write up the fact that the duct needed fixin'. I have to assume that he checked this area out after seeing the staining. Why is it that you would like compensation for this? What will you do with said compensation? Reason I ask, is that you haven't provided anything indicating repairs are warranted. Fixing something that doesn't need fixed is pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Star Posted March 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Well I think naturally had I known before proceeding with the purchase of the home I would have asked the inspector to show me the issue and tell me what is needed to fix it before closing on the home. As you can see in the pics he noted water staining on the floor of the utility room and personallyshowed me that...why would you not show someone the roof issue? Some people I have asked about this said it is the OCB peeling, some say rotting, some say staining. Why do I think I am entitled to a refund? Because I feel like this company gave me an incomplete report. But as I said I want opinions of other inspectors/professionals since this guy has gone dark on communication...and before I go posting negative reviews about him online, I wanted to ask first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Is the only mention of the issue in the report a picture with a caption? Did the report state anything anywhere about what a loose "bath exhaust vent" means? Is there no other mention of it or recommendation for any type of action? Is it in a list anywhere else of items that need attention? Let's see the entire report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Well I think naturally had I known before proceeding with the purchase of the home I would have asked the inspector to show me the issue and tell me what is needed to fix it before closing on the home. As you can see in the pics he noted water staining on the floor of the utility room and personallyshowed me that...why would you not show someone the roof issue? Because it's unimportant and doesn't need to be fixed. Some people I have asked about this said it is the OCB peeling, some say rotting, some say staining. Who said that it's rotting. Was this person in the attic and did he touch the wood? Is he qualified to say what "rot" is? The reason I ask is that several times per week, people show me "rot" that's really just weathering, or staining, or peeling paint, or dirt. From what you've posted here, I don't see anything that need to be replaced on your roof. Someone just needs to properly vent the bath fans, which is, presumably, what your inspector said in the report. Why do I think I am entitled to a refund? Because I feel like this company gave me an incomplete report. So far, the stuff you've presented does not support your contention. But as I said I want opinions of other inspectors/professionals since this guy has gone dark on communication...and before I go posting negative reviews about him online, I wanted to ask first. You should carefully read the contract you signed when you hired him. Then you should carefully read the standards of practice that he's supposed to perform to per that contract. Then find the section that you think he failed to fulfill. Then come back and ask for opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Hi, You're off base because you kept talking about mold in your correspondence to the inspector, which tells me you have some kind of idea in your head that you're somehow going to be poisoned by "toxic" mold. Get that whole mold idea out of your mind; the concern is woodrot fungi, not mold. Toxic mold is a myth. The vent is leaking against the underside of the roof and is causing the OSB to rot. It's in first stage - incipient stage - and right now it's just starting to delaminate a little bit. Eventually, if it's not corrected, it will reach second - intermediate - stage and it will look like the OSB in the photo below. If it's not corrected at that point, it will progress to third - advanced - stage and the roof deck will become untenable. By then, incipient rot will have infestd the nearby framing and it will continue its progression until someone does something about it. The longer it's ignored, the more it costs to fix. Right now, it's cheap to fix. The fix is easy, replace the roof jack vent with a proper rain cap with a male extension that comes through the roof. Properly connect and seal the connector from the fan to that extension; so that 100% of all that air goes outside, and then treat the underside of the roof deck, and all visible wood around it, with BoraCare, Timbor, Concrobium or some other borate-based fungicide to kill the spore and make the surface toxic to fungi spore. If you really want to get fancy, have the roof around the vent soda or dry-ice blasted to remove all of the discoloration before you treat it with the fungicide - that way, it won't become an issue at future resale. All of that should cost a few hundred bucks at the most. You and your family are not at risk and your house isn't ready to fall down. He made a mistake because he doesn't have a good understanding of how the wood rot fungi mechanism works. Now he gets a chance to learn so that he won't make the same mistake again. You both win. Any attempt to go beyond that will just be a shameful attempt at a money grab. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Well I think naturally had I known before proceeding with the purchase of the home I would have asked the inspector to show me the issue and tell me what is needed to fix it before closing on the home. As you can see in the pics he noted water staining on the floor of the utility room and personallyshowed me that...why would you not show someone the roof issue? Some people I have asked about this said it is the OCB peeling, some say rotting, some say staining. Why do I think I am entitled to a refund? Because I feel like this company gave me an incomplete report. But as I said I want opinions of other inspectors/professionals since this guy has gone dark on communication...and before I go posting negative reviews about him online, I wanted to ask first. More on Ryan's fishing trip can be found over on IN http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_insp ... stion.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Thanks everyone for your input. So here is the whole story... I had an inspection done on new house here and the unreported findings that I have a problem with are found here in this pics (taken from the report I got): Three issues found, two with the roof vent pipes there and one with water on the floor in the basement. No where in the report did it say anything about roof staining or, what appeared/appears to me to be the underside of my roof rotting and thus the vent plate detatching and falling down. So we moved forward with the purchase of the house and shortly after moving in I had my brother in law (who does construction) climb into the attic to reattach the vents, and he was greeted with this. One vent down, the (I'm calling it rotting) so bad the screws detatched holding up the plate came undone). The other was loose and at a down slope of the tube mid section it was full of ice. So naturally I complained to the inspection company. Below is the email chain which I have blanked out personal information: From: Me Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 12:33 PM To: (leaving their email address out of it, but their general email address here) Subject: Inspection (home address) Attached are two pictures of the inspection report picture page in which you can clearly see for one of the vents on the roof having mold. The other vent tube hole to the roof (which you cannot see the roof vent hole pictured but it is clearly visible when looking up at the roof from the access hole when the inspector took the pictures) is more rotted with mold. So basically two vents have the issue. This mold was not noted anywhere in the inspection report done by XXX even though you can clearly see the one roof vent in the picture having it. Obviously I am very unhappy something so obvious was missed and I would like some sort of compensation for this for the impending repair that we now have to make at our cost. Please call me on my cell at XXX-XXX-XXXX for any questions. Thanks Me ************************************* From: Company owner name Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 9:11 PM To: Me Subject: Attic moisture Staining Hi Me, I have looked at the report and talked to my inspector about this situation. The staining around the vent pipe I am seeing in the picture that Kevin had in the report is a very common occurrence in attics. This is something we see every day that is not a big concern. There doesn?t appear to be any rotted decking just moisture deterioration. The vents need to be sealed better to prevent more deterioration but there is no need to do anything to the areas since they are in the attic and nobody will be in contact with the surfaces. I have to disagree with you saying that he missed this when the picture in the report shows that Kevin clearly didn?t miss it. The extent of deterioration in his opinion was not large enough to make it a main concern. I don?t feel that we have any liability in this matter. Regards, Company owner Owner Inspection company name *****************************************************8 I have sent numerous follow up emails to this person to discuss it further with no further communication. So before I take this further I wanted opinions on what (if any) leg I had to stand on here. Bottom line is the inspector took the picture and you can CLEARLY see a dark spot there, but he made no mention of it in the report nor investigated it further. To me, I am at least entitled to a refund. Am I off base? At the most, I would have said something that made it clear that I didn't miss it. When I'm calling my client's attention to multi-thousand dollar issues, which I frequently find, my overall report is not improved by diluting my message with abundant small fry observations. My average client doesn't want to be bothered with it, so that's how I proceed. To say that you're off-base is wrong. You've every right to expect whatever you wish, but the inspector needs to know that from the get go. Communicating precisely just what you want from him is much more difficult before reading the report than afterwards. Something tells me that you're not happy with the overall report from this inspector. That little spot on the underside of the roof deck is just the excuse. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 A little wake-up call as to what can result from those water stains we don't call out. "Something tells me that you're not happy with the overall report from this inspector. That little spot on the underside of the roof deck is just the excuse. -Marc" Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Forget all the stuff about Standards, contracts, fulfillment, etc. It's smoke screen from HI association's that's written for lots of reasons, with customer protection being somewhere down the list of concerns. What was going on with this house? Was this the only thing you've found since the inspection? Was there a lot of other stuff, and this was one more thing they missed? Did the house have a lot of other defects that the inspector did find? Were they in the house for an hour, or 4 hours? Look at this within the scope of what the job, then tell us what you think. If the guy did a really crappy job, then you're entitled to some form of satisfaction. If this is the only thing that's come up, then I think you're entitled to your opinion. There's something called "2nd guy in syndrome"......someone's brother in law that's "in construction" has a revelation about some minor thing, and then convinces the homeowner the inspector is a moron for not seeing it. From my end, it's a dinky little minor omission that would take about 5 minutes to correct. Most HI's are looking for bear, not grasshoppers. Bears eat you, grasshoppers are a minor nuisance. If you got a plague of grasshoppers, that's something else that goes back to some of my earlier comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 From my end, it's a dinky little minor omission that would take about 5 minutes to correct. Most HI's are looking for bear, not grasshoppers. Bears eat you, grasshoppers are a minor nuisance. If you got a plague of grasshoppers, that's something else that goes back to some of my earlier comments. Our late friend Norm Sage shared some advice with me when we were up in Chicago working together on an ASHI committee. He said that he always told his clients that he was on a Safari. He was looking for the lions, tigers, elephants, etc but those little butterflies and crawling critters might not be found. That has stuck with me for about 15 years and I use it often when I tell folks what I'm looking for in a home inspection. It gets the point across real quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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