TimWhalen Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Currently I have a 30 gallon electric hot water heater providing hot water to a 3/4 bath (shower and sink) used by two people. I am trying to convince myself that I can pull from this same hot water heater to another new bathroom (shower, tub, dual sinks). When all is done three people will utilize these two bathrooms. Is this feasible or shall I look for another alternantive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 As long as the teenager showers last you will have plenty of hot water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Yeah. Any teenagers in the house pretty much cans a 30 gallon heater. You want to ramp up capacity a bit. If you're into water saver showerheads and being meticulous about water consumption, you could make it work, but you probably won't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Meiland Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 How old is the 30? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimWhalen Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 9 years old...it was not used a whole lot until two years ago when we moved in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjr6550 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 A 30 gallon electric water heater is 20 gallons less than typical. I also wonder whether it has 4500 watt elements. If everybody takes short showers and can wait between showers for it to heat the water you may be able to live with it. I suppose there is no harm in trying, but I would be thinking about a new water heater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Tim, you like to play around with parts and tools. Install a second tank and plumb it series/parallel with hookup valves. Then you can pre-wram your water, or run one tank to each bathroom. Then you can report back here which is best. [:-graduat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 If you're doing two tanks, do them in parallel not series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Series only works in solar thermal installations. Go big or go parallel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjmiller Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Series is useful to avoid flushing previously hot water down the drain. Typically a small tank is used with a 70% usable capacity equivalent to the volume of the pipe between the primary tank and the tank at the fixture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Meiland Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 At 9 years, it's probably reasonable to just replace the 30 with a 50. You might also be able to add a circuit and wire it so that both elements fire at once. If you have the installation manual, take a look and see if there's a diagram showing the wiring for that. If it only has one element, forget it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Series only works in solar thermal installations. Go big or go parallel. Tom, why? I have series with no issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Series connected heaters seems to have Rheem's support. Download Attachment: Heaters on series_parallel.pdf 87.34 KB Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 See what I mean? Parallel is better for what reason? We need more data. Re: size of the second tank. You will see that the standard size tanks are cheaper than the odd sizes, bigger or smaller. I had to fit a smaller tank into a closet and ended up paying almost $200 more for it. I would go series because I don't think you will always need 2 tanks. If you put the new tank downstream from the old one, you can shut power off to the old one and it will temper the well water, bringing it up to room temp. That alone will save you energy. When your teen is around, turn it on at a lower temp setting to preheat the water to the new tank. If you find you run out of hot water, slap kid up the head turn up the temp on the first tank and have about 60 gals of stored hot water. If you can figure out a timer arrangement, one tank could shut itself off for half of the day. For parallel, you need to equalize the pipe lengths and restrictions so that both tanks supply equally. Advantage is one tank can be shut completely off, like when it springs a leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 You might also be able to add a circuit and wire it so that both elements fire at once. That's a resourceful solution, but I think you should emphasis that a new circuit needs to be added all the way from the breaker panel. Wiring the two elements to the one supply circuit would be a serious fire hazard if it doesn't trip the breaker. Also assuming it is an electric water heater. Most of the mainlanders burn gas, eh? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimWhalen Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Thx to all. I will digest everything and report back. The other wrinkle to all this.... The house was carved into three apartments 40 years ago. Each of the 30 gallon tanks serviced one apartment each on the second floor. Both of these are electric. The 'main' apartement is on the first floor and has a 50 gallon gas fired unit. I'd like to leave this one alone. Before we renovated, each apartement on the second level had a full kitchen and bath. I did away with the kitchens and updated both bathrooms. All is well with three teenage boys in one and one teenage girl in the other. As I move forward I am speculating that kids will leave for college, etc as well. My head hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Meiland Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 He said electric, and I said add a circuit... which I suppose could be made more clear by inserting the word "new" in there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I recall another article advising against series installations because the second tank always ran more than the first and wore out sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I recall another article advising against series installations because the second tank always ran more than the first and wore out sooner. What was said to be the problem with one wearing out before the other? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 I recall another article advising against series installations because the second tank always ran more than the first and wore out sooner. What was said to be the problem with one wearing out before the other? Marc The problem was plumbing leaks from rotating them twice a year. [] David, my apologies. I read it too fast, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 I suppose that would be common sense that one dormant would not wear as much as the active. However, my recommendation, for our areas, is the lead tank is set to just above 60degrees which is 5degrees above supply and the second tank finishes the work at 120+-. That seems to be right for us here in Michigan where our water is really not problematic in most areas. I suspect this arrangement saves me a few dollars on my natural gas bill and I know we are never out of hot water with four bathrooms and two kitchens. With me, the wife and a couple cats, it gets close at times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim5055 Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 I suppose that would be common sense that one dormant would not wear as much as the active. However, my recommendation, for our areas, is the lead tank is set to just above 60degrees which is 5degrees above supply and the second tank finishes the work at 120+-. That seems to be right for us here in Michigan where our water is really not problematic in most areas. I suspect this arrangement saves me a few dollars on my natural gas bill and I know we are never out of hot water with four bathrooms and two kitchens. With me, the wife and a couple cats, it gets close at times! This is what I did a year ago. The house we bought already had two 50's in series. As it is the two of us with 4 cats and a German Shepherd Dog 100 gallons at 120 was more than we would ever use. I turned the lead tank down to pre heat the water going to the finish tank. So far so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 An uninsulated tank would reach 60 most of the time just sitting at n my basement. No fuel needed. Marc, the second tank experiences greater temp swings. It runs more frequently and for longer periods than the preheated. As a result it also sees more condensation. I've been in my house less than 15 years and have installed 3 water heaters there. The last thing I need to do is hasten the detritus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjbrown2 Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 My small sample experience with electric water heaters is that 9 years is just a fraction of their useful life. Depending on water chemistry, the biggest problem I have found with electrics is the cal-rod burnout due to 'mineral' deposits. I had one unit where I had to replace the lower rod on an 18 month cycle. I wedged a stainless steel 'fin' against the base between the rod loop and extended the life to over three years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 I suppose that would be common sense that one dormant would not wear as much as the active. However, my recommendation, for our areas, is the lead tank is set to just above 60degrees which is 5degrees above supply and the second tank finishes the work at 120+-. That seems to be right for us here in Michigan where our water is really not problematic in most areas. I suspect this arrangement saves me a few dollars on my natural gas bill and I know we are never out of hot water with four bathrooms and two kitchens. With me, the wife and a couple cats, it gets close at times! This is what I did a year ago. The house we bought already had two 50's in series. As it is the two of us with 4 cats and a German Shepherd Dog 100 gallons at 120 was more than we would ever use. I turned the lead tank down to pre heat the water going to the finish tank. So far so good. That's how I would plumb them normally,gives you more reserve/faster recover without having to keep 100 gals of water constantly heated.[:-thumbu] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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