John Dirks Jr Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I'm sure many of you find cases where drywall is installed over drywall resulting in the boxes being set back from the edge. I usually find loose receptacles and excessive gaps as a result. Obviously I call for repairs in these cases. In another case, I found the drywall was very carefully cut tight to the box opening such that there are no resulting gaps once the cover is installed. In addition, the mounting tabs on the receptacle overhang the drywall panel enough to tighten them pretty good. In a case like this, should I still call for repairs such as box extenders or whatnot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I do. The box must be within 1/4 inch of the finished wall surface (314.20) to contain sparks. Drywall has paper on both sides, it's combustible. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 How often do you guys remove covers and inspect box installations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 How often do you guys remove covers and inspect box installations? Sometimes those things are visible defects. They look like crap. You don't have to take it apart to see what is wrong. A finger poke from outside can tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 . . . In a case like this, should I still call for repairs such as box extenders or whatnot? I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted August 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 It's a shame how easy it would have been to install box extenders before hanging the extra wall panels. Now they're gonna have a PITA to deal with. Always amazes me. If we keep writing them up, maybe some of them will start to get it. Ya think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 It's a shame how easy it would have been to install box extenders before hanging the extra wall panels. Now they're gonna have a PITA to deal with. Always amazes me. If we keep writing them up, maybe some of them will start to get it. Ya think? Hey John, nothing we say in boring inspection reports has much effect on anybody, I'm afraid. Why not cash in on it and invent a better box extender, like one that costs a buck and can be installed with crazy glue? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Port Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 I do. The box must be within 1/4 inch of the finished wall surface (314.20) to contain sparks. Drywall has paper on both sides, it's combustible. Marc Drywall is considered a noncombustible material. Firewalls are made of drywall. Not much point of something designed to contain fire if it were combustible. In a combustible finish the box must be flush or proud of the surface. Any gaps larger than 1/8" need to be repaired based on the NEC. Box extenders like BE-1 from Arlington can be easily installed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtblum Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 I've got some that are nothing but a flat plastic rim, that come in different depths, for when I tile a backsplash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 This is one of the arguments for steel 1900 boxes and mud rings. I don't have to think about this shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Port Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 The hole can be cut too big regardless of the wiring method and materials used. Certainly not a compelling reason for conduit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 You don't seem to be aware of what a mud ring is, what it does, and why it makes the issue go away. I have no illusion that folks will one day do things differently. When given total freedom to do whatever they want, most folks imitate each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Port Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 You are right Kurt, after 30 plus years, 25 with a Masters license, there is no way I would know what a plaster ring is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Well, of course, but explain how the hole is a problem with a mud ring. The result here is a perfect opening every time. I've come to love pipe and steel boxes. Maybe it's just me, but I don't know as to how I could do a rope job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Port Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 It comes down to the skill or lack of skill on the drywallers. Even a good drywallers can't make up for a box that is too deep or a too shallow ring. A 1/2" ring in 1/2" drywall is not thick enough to be flush. If the installer goes crazy with the Rotozip, all bets are off. If someone add a layer of tile over the drywall it gets even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Our guys get it right. Shoot, they use the ring as the screed for the mud. Nice flush mounts with a big fat steel box that will hold anything forever. Nothing's right if the workmen can't get it right. That's true for any and every thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 A little off topic, but, lately it's as much about the materials as the workmanship. I am currently helping out on an addition and material quality is atrocious. You can't get a quality product when all of the material is garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Absolutely. Lumber quality is ridiculously bad. The housing industry is in crisis mode AFAIC. It's trying to bend new mfg. and engineered products into the mold of Early American Traditional sorts of designs. We got the engineering and stuff to make remarkably efficient and appropriate designs, but people want the look more than they want the function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Premium hem fir studs vary in width 7/8", sometimes on the same board. Thickness is off a similar percentage. OSB has curled so badly the sheets will stand on end. Hanger nails don't fit through the holes in the hangers, clips don't fit in the nail guns. Even the LVLs are inconsistent, in width and thickness. It's worse than I've ever seen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Premium hem fir studs vary in width 7/8", sometimes on the same board... What? 2X4s are 3 1/2 wide here, throughout it's length and every last one of them. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjr6550 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Premium hem fir studs vary in width 7/8", sometimes on the same board. Thickness is off a similar percentage. OSB has curled so badly the sheets will stand on end. Hanger nails don't fit through the holes in the hangers, clips don't fit in the nail guns. Even the LVLs are inconsistent, in width and thickness. It's worse than I've ever seen it. ??????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Yes. The materials are that bad. Not from the big boxes either. Sadly, the few pieces that came from HD were a magnitude of order better. We always jump to the conclusion that the trades didn't care or that it was DIY and they didn't know. There is also the very real possibility that they were supplied with garbage materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtblum Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Note to self. Do not buy 2x4s from anyone in Buffalo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjr6550 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I have bought, used, or seen many of those materials in recent years and have never seen anything close to what you are describing. Dimensional lumber has relatively close tolerances to meet standards. Whether the lumber warps as it dries is another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Some of the lumber was so bad I don't see how it could have been graded. Standards. Funny. The worst of the bunch came from a mill called Idaho Forest. Perhaps they should stick to potatoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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