Jump to content

Qualified Framing Carpenter


Mike Lamb
 Share

Recommended Posts

This chimney leans out about 1/2" on a 4' level. Not as bad as the photo suggests but still noticeable. The inside wall had the same lean with some minor drywall cracks. I think the wall was built with a lean. 1964. Adjacent areas did not look stressed out. Anyway, I recommended that a qualified framing carpenter take a look and give an opinion. Would a structural engineer been more appropriate?

Click to View

2009125124536_lean.jpg

45.14 KB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Mike Lamb

This chimney leans out about 1/2" on a 4' level. Not as bad as the photo suggests but still noticeable. The inside wall had the same lean with some minor drywall cracks. I think the wall was built with a lean. 1964. Adjacent areas did not look stressed out. Anyway, I recommended that a qualified framing carpenter take a look and give an opinion. Would a structural engineer been more appropriate?

I can't explain what's happening from just looking at the photo, but I'll bet you a fistful of dollars that it wasn't built with a lean.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It looks like the type of chase one sees cobbled on around stovepipes when wood or gas stoves are added to a home and they need to run the vent up the outside of the structure versus straight up through the house. If that's the case, I suspect that whoever cobbled on the chase, whether the homeowner or the guy putting in the stove, was probably not the best "carpenter" in the world.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a ranch. I thought maybe the chimney chase was built crooked but the inside wall matched up out of plumb. The rest of the house framing looked OK. Getting to that side of the attic was critical but there was about 12" of new celulose blown in so I had to look from the hatch which didn't tell me anything. My gut tells me this is no big deal but leaning walls need some explaining and I just couldn't tell if this is going to be a future problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Mike Lamb

Getting to that side of the attic was critical but there was about 12" of new celulose blown in so I had to look from the hatch which didn't tell me anything.

So, what you do is climb up in there and go on your hands and knees over to that area to look things over. Then when you back out you just fluff the stuff back up behind you. It takes almost no extra time; just a little more effort to get off the ladder and make your way over there and back.

Maybe the framing crew had a few too many at lunch that day before they raised those walls and the guy working the level or the guy nailing home the temporary brace was a little off his game.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by hausdok

Originally posted by Mike Lamb

Getting to that side of the attic was critical but there was about 12" of new celulose blown in so I had to look from the hatch which didn't tell me anything.

So, what you do is climb up in there and go on your hands and knees over to that area to look things over. Then when you back out you just fluff the stuff back up behind you. It takes almost no extra time; just a little more effort to get off the ladder and make your way over there and back.

Maybe the framing crew had a few too many at lunch that day before they raised those walls and the guy working the level or the guy nailing home the temporary brace was a little off his game.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

So, what you do is climb up in there and go on your hands and knees…

Thanks for the crawling instructions, Mike.

It takes almost no extra time… Just a little more effort… Then when you back out you just fluff the stuff back up behind you…

Um, right.

I think you are right that the framing crew may have been drunk.

Click to View

2009125203834_new.jpg

82.06 KB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm still tryin' to wrap my head around the idea of crawling down through insulation, and then as I back out, "fluff the stuff up behind you"............

Oh Lordy.

Honestly, the likelihood of older growth wood framed chimney chase doing much of anything other than sitting right there after 40 years is highly unlikely. It seems like you could figure out if it's moved, or been repaired, or whatever.

And, what carpenter hasn't been drunk? [:-angel]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by energy star

The mold problem is also something that should be looked at. The roof rafters are covered in mold. (By collar ties)

On that end of the home, is the space wide open? Like the living room and dining room are open to each other. with no shear walls or walls perpendicular to that outside wall that the chimney is on?

There was no mold.

"On that end of the home, is the space wide open? Like the living room and dining room are open to each other. with no shear walls or walls perpendicular to that outside wall that the chimney is on?"

Yes. Exactly. What's your theory?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe the end wall was never tied into the ceiling joists or roof rafters and the 40 years of wind on the sail of a chimney pushed the wall out a total of no more then the 2 inches you found.

The siding may be newer and covering up the separation of the chimney at the roof rake. Newer shingles and flashing would also hide the movement.

Carpenters around here ussually don't start drinking until after the afternoon coffee break, when the boss has gone for the day.

Ezra Malernee

Canton, Ohio

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's something I picked up at a seminar this year.

Are the ceiling joists connected into the side of a beam that runs along the center? If so, the joists may have pulled apart if they weren't tied together.

The engineer who gave the seminar stated when joists are tied into the side of a beam, look for plywood or some other sort of connection from one side of the beam to the other that will hold the joists from moving due to the load of the rafters on the exterior walls.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would think part of my analysis of the chimney chase and wall lean issue would be a complete inventory of rafter cross ties (ceiling joists), bracing, strongbacks, lateral ties, or whatever else I could find that would tell me the house was tied together satisfactorily.

I've seen a couple houses where the rafters ran across the width of the house and the ceiling joists ran lengthwise down the house. Or, just about any other oddball combination, or total lack of, bracing and reinforcement members.

I didn't mean to sound casual about the chimney chase. Of course, it's holistic, and one needs to look for all the things we should be looking for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Richard it looks like mold is on the roof rafters. Explode the view and you will see.

Back to the wall. It was probably built like that and over time bowed out. It did this because they used pre-cuts or 8' 2 x 4's to frame the house. When they got to the gable end rather than using longer 2x4's to frame out the wall, which i would do with the proper fire stops, say 12 or 16 footers, they just used the 2x4's and a top plate on top of the pre-cuts, then they used shorter 2x4's to reach the roof. the top plate on top of the pre-cuts is the weak point (almost like a hinge) This could be avoided by installing strong-backs or strong boards on top of the ceiling joists perpendicular to the end of the home. The boards would be nailed to the top of the ceiling joists and to the gable wall close to the top plate. This will keep the wall from moving in or out as this one did. Back then things were different as far as code goes, you can tell because I think a home built now needs more collar ties installed.

I would just walk on the top of the ceiling joists right over to the area you want to get to and take a look. The insulation will fluff up a bit after you leave. You could buy a nine dollar bag of the same stuff at Lowe's or tell the home owner to, that is the least of his worries.

Again that roof deck has gotten wet at some point in time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with some of the responses above, I think that the house wasn't built with a lean. I think the chimney weight has pulled or caused the wall to lean and the chimney is pulling away from the rest of the exterior stem wall framing.

I would have recommended a strustural engineer to evaluate the cause further, but even more so to evauluate the need and cost of repair.

Robert Welch

http://www.atexinspects.com

Originally posted by Mike Lamb

This chimney leans out about 1/2" on a 4' level. Not as bad as the photo suggests but still noticeable. The inside wall had the same lean with some minor drywall cracks. I think the wall was built with a lean. 1964. Adjacent areas did not look stressed out. Anyway, I recommended that a qualified framing carpenter take a look and give an opinion. Would a structural engineer been more appropriate?

Click to View

2009125124536_lean.jpg

45.14 KB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...