Chad Fabry Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 5. As of the writing of this information on December 31, 2009, none of the infractions have been corrected to compliance. or 5. As of the writing of this information on December 31, 2009, none of the infractions has been corrected to compliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Manor Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 had Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 ain't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 5. As of the writing of this information on December 31, 2009, none of the infractions have been corrected to compliance. or 5. As of the writing of this information on December 31, 2009, none of the infractions has been corrected to compliance. None means "not one." I'd say, not one of the corrections has . . . - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted January 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 None means "not one." I'd say, not one of the corrections has . . . That's what I think too, but for discussion, try this on.. None of the students is going to the fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 "On my site visit December 31, 2009, no violations had been corrected." I'd leave out the "as of this writing" part; the reader knows you're writing. It's always better to take out unnecessary words. If someone wanted to say "hey, I was out there right after you left on the 31st fixing stuff", I'd just have to shrug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 None means "not one." I'd say, not one of the corrections has . . . That's what I think too, but for discussion, try this on.. None of the students is going to the fair. "Is" denotes now. "Are" implies the future. Or "is" implies singular, "are" implies plural. "No student is going to the fair." "No students are going to the fair". At least that's what sounds right to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Looks like we've got another long thread in the making. We need another quietus.... Bonnie!!! Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgbinspect Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 "None" is a modifier - in this case "not one of" the subject - "infractions" (which is plural). So, the easiest test is to set aside the modifier, resulting in "the infractions have (or have not)" Have appears to be grammatically correct. Usually in tough situations strip the sentence to bare bone essentials and it becomes easier to decide. To take the test to an even simpler level, eliminate the type of plural subject "infractions" and replace it with the plural pronoun "they" or "them" "None of them have been..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 if you keep same structure it would be "have been". I do so want to go to the fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 5. As of the writing of this information on December 31, 2009, none of the infractions have been corrected to compliance. or 5. As of the writing of this information on December 31, 2009, none of the infractions has been corrected to compliance. As of December 31, 2009, none of the infractions had been corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgbinspect Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 In fact, since "infractions" is the subject, it should not even matter if it is "none" or "all"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtblum Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I don't really see the point of all of this. If they didn't listen to you the first time, what makes you think they will now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Proficiency in English generally commands respect. That's why I don't get any. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I don't really see the point of all of this. If they didn't listen to you the first time, what makes you think they will now? That's funny![:-monkeyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgbinspect Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." You are right, Gary. "In order to keep a true perspective of one's importance, everyone should have a dog that will worship him and a cat that will ignore him." Such is life... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlieb Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 You people are making my head (hair as Kurt would say) hurt. I'm done with my lunch and catching up with this forum so back to installing heated seats in the wife's convertible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 "None" is a modifier - in this case "not one of" the subject - "infractions" (which is plural). So, the easiest test is to set aside the modifier, resulting in "the infractions have (or have not)" No. You can't discard the "none" because it defines the number of the subject. In this sentence, it means "not one." There might be a whole bunch of infractions, but not a single one has been corrected. I cite Strunk & White, Chapter I, rule 9. It says, "With, none, use the singular verb when the word means "no one" or "not one." It later goes on to explain that the only time you use the plural with none is when it suggests more than one thing or person such as, "None are so fallible as those who are sure they're right." - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgbinspect Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Touché Jim! I love it - not only the correction, but the thought that went into the conclusion! I'm addicted to learning and have been for decades. It never really matters to me how it comes about, be it study, discussion, bantering, or even being proven to be flat out wrong. I wrote it two years ago and I'm happy to write it again: If the price of an education is to be proven wrong, the outcome is still worth it. Had I not been so ardently convinced I was right, would we have ever arrived at a definitive answer like what you've brought to the table? Thanks for taking me to school. What's really funny though is a quick search of the web reveals that even among journalists this particular rule is hotly contested and inconclusive with some journalists actually challenging Strunk & White. http://ask.metafilter.com/21238/is-none-singular And then according to Perrin Smith Corder "none" falls into a small list of "indefinite pronouns" of which they state: "None" may be either singular or plural, depending upon the context. In current usage it is commonly used with a plural verb, but Formal usage still prefers a singular verb unless the meaning is clearly plural. None of the national parks 'is' more scenic than Glacier. None of the charges 'has' been proved. None of the new homes are as well constructed as the homes built twenty-five years ago. [The sentance clearly refers to all new homes.] The emphatic 'no one' is always singular: I looked at a dozen books on the subject, but no one was of any use to me. Apparently, the subject is such a hair splitter - a bottomless pit even among professionals, and no one will question the use of either way accept the most refined journalists on the planet. So, this may be an "if it feels good" kinda choice. Well, that was interesting! Glad that's behind us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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