chrisprickett Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 I went to look at a potential rental property yesterday (for me) and when I looked in the side yard, the condenser was running, and had iced over. I asked the seller why she had the a/c on (it was about 60 out) and she said she didn't. Sure enough, the thermostat was off and the air handler wasn't running. I shut off the power to the disconnect, and told her to get an HVAC guy out there to look at it. She aked me if that would cause her electric bill to be high And said it bill had been very high the last 4 months[!] The house is only 11 months old, split system heat/ a/c. I'm thinking a condenser that has been running non-stop for 4 months is pretty much toast. Questions: What would cause the condenser to run when it's set to be off, and also, is the condenser worth fixing?[:-football] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Chris, If it was iced the compressor was running, not only the condensor fan. If it was running 24/7, man that'd be a high bill. Most of these units have relays that handle the current that actually runs the compressor when the thermostat calls for cooling. The relay could be stuck closed, or more likely, there's a short in the thermostat wiring or in the thermostat itself. See if she's hung pictures on the wall above the thermostat... could be a nail intrusion. from here down is an edit... It wouldn't be a thermostat problem or it'd be cold in the house. But the thermostat input on the unit could be shorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a46geo Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Chris, I agree with everything Chad said, except the likelihood. It is most likely a contactor (relay). The relay points start out pitting and then arcing and eventually welding together. To help prevent this in the future, gently clean the points every spring with emery cloth. (too late for this one) New contactor cost vary, but generally under 100 bucks. New condenser? $1,500 range. Plan on that one. George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a46geo Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by a46geo Chris, Now, I am assuming you are wrong and this is actually a heat pump. There was a similar topic on another forum along with a photo. Did you see that post & photo? Did the condenser you saw freeze like that? I can't for the life of me picture a condenser freezing unless it is acting as the evaporator in a heat pump application. For a condenser to freeze, the pressures inside would have to be low enough to boil condensed refrigerant which would then be too low to condense refrigerant vapor. The unit can't absorbe heat and freeze up without a supply of condensed refrigerant. Hence, if it can't condense refrigerant, where is it getting condensed refrigerant to boil off into a liquid and absorb heat and cause the freezing in the first place? If it is a A/C only, the condenser coil could not have been frozen, however the suction line and compressor could be a solid block of ice. If that is it, a lot of liquid refrigerant has been pumped through that compressor. Now, if this is true, it may very well be a scroll compressor (to do it for 4 months) in which case you may not want or need to replace it. The last thing to look into is warranty. Unless Chad is correct and its a nail shorting the t-stat wires, what ever is wrong may be covered. I hope that is clearer than mud George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 George you make me think, It if wasn't a scroll compressor that thing would have slugged refrigerant a long time ago and grenaded. If it was in heat pump mode and stuck on, that'd make sense as there'd only be airflow through the condenser/evaporator (inside) as the thermostat called for heat and the system would seem to be functioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a46geo Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Chad, The problem here is that we really need to SEE it. We need to look at both the outdoor and indoor units. Play with it a little. With out that, we are both just guessing. George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 George, I'm happy to just think about it. Chris'll tell us what was wrong when he pays the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a46geo Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 I'm happy to just think about it. Chad, Pay attention here. You are in Rochester N.Y. I am in Detroit MI. Chris is in Anthem AZ. WE NEED TO SEE IT. The temperature here is in the low teens, we need to go ASAP. George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 It'd be deductible too... it's 5 here today and we got 16 inches of snow in the last 18 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlee Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 I think George is right, and that this is a heat pump, with all sorts of electrics screwed up, among them a failing defrost cycle. -David Lee in VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Angevine Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 I feel sorry for you who do not live in God's country. It warm enough out here that it does not warrent the expense of a heat pump, and cool enough in summer that air conditioners are rear. Right now it is 55 degrees out at 1 P. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Morrison Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Roy, Yeah, but what was the wind chill? JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 I lost my hampster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a46geo Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Originally posted by Scottpat I lost my hampster! This inabitily to concentrate is EXACTLY why the south lost the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarga Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Chris, In addition to what everyone else said. It was probably a heat pump. They need to go into a defrost cycle every so often. Perhaps there is an issue with the circuit board that is preventing it from going into the defrost cycle. The house is only 11 months old. They may not have used the heat last year at this time and that means she didn't turn on the heat until October of this year. My guess is a manufactures defect preventing it from going into defrost. This is an issue that she would not even be aware of today since it is 76 degrees outside in January. [}}>>] Sorry Kurt, I couldn't resist. [:-bonc01] I'm going to go for a ride on my bike now, maybe I'll go to the lake or the river or... ... ...[}] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisprickett Posted January 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Thanks for the input guys. NOT a heat pump. Gas fired furnace, split system- furnace, coil, air handler in attic, condensor in yard. The icing was at the condensor and the t-stat was OFF. The blower wasn't operating. If you want to come out and trouble shoot the problem, I have to warn you: Temps dipped to 72 today, could be as low as 70 tomorrow[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Yes, it's 15 degrees here today. Those further northeast are suffering even lower temps. I don't find his mention of the high temp unusual but it sure as he*& is cruel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 I'll go with the contactor theory. I've seen this happen numerous times. Here in S. Florida lizzards get into the controls and fry. Sometimes there's enough lizzard juice left in the carcass to complete the circuit for quite awhile and the condensor freezes up. NORM SAGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by hausdokWhat do you say folks? Should I eject Chris from this board for inflicting cruel and unusual punishment on the rest of us? [8] Chris is just trying to live up to his name...Prickett, meaning a small prick []. Whether that's literal or figurative, I couldn't say [:-magnify][:I]. Thanks for the weather report Chris! [:-weepn] Brian G. It's Even Been Cold in Mississippi [:-cold] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisprickett Posted January 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 No fair Mike! We can't swim after dark because it dips to 50! Ya' know, we suffer too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarga Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Chris, I am not trying to speak down to you. We both know how bad "Chainsaw Roberts Air Conditioning is. I have seen them connect a heat pump to a gas furnace before. (Just because there is a gas furnace installed doesn't mean a heat pump wasn't the unit on the truck that they installed. With the stat off, I would have to say a nail or some other short caused the issue. At least she didn't need it today with the temp at 13 degrees [:-dev3](76 degrees 7+6 = 13 degrees) yea that's it. It was 13 here today[:-bigmouth][:-spin][%|][:-thumbu][:-sonar][:-sly][:-slaphappy][:-party][:-bouncy][:-bonc01] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Hi all, 1st time here. It is not unusual to have gas heat on a heat pump. Here in Kansas today it was 59 deg. Anyway a heat pump has a secondary heating source. It could be electric or gas or oil or LP. Check the T-stat to see if it has a Emergency heat or auxillery heat switch. And somtimes they have lights to show what is on. Also you cal look at the condenser and it will have alot more stuff like plumbing/reversing valve/accumulator/ECT... Also they will have 6 or 8 wires to the T-stat not the basic 4. Just my 3 1/2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Gentlemen... I know thread drift is inevitable, but could we please return to the main question? Did Scott ever find his hampster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Originally posted by Richard MooreGentlemen... I know thread drift is inevitable, but could we please return to the main question? Did Scott ever find his hampster? And if it was actually a gerbil, we don't want to know...[:-bigeyes][:-eyebrows] Brian G. Be Like Me, Gerbil Free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBI property inspections Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Sorry for the late reply! I think!! was in my mind is very simple: the thermostat was set low and the A/C was just working to the setting of the stat. Most likely nothing wrong. What do you think?? Rolland Pruner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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