report writing

[allspec33351]

Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt

I need a way to reference from the findings to the pics and vice a versa. What do you suggest? Right now its goto pic 4 on page 5. And if you happened to start with the picture pages the caption kinda indicates the item in the finding section. Do you think instead of repeating pics 1 - 8 that I should number them 1 thru X so that the findings reference would say see pic 27 instead of pic 4 on page 5?

Chris, Oregon

Yes.

Your findings are not easy to read. Maybe open it a little, space in good places.

Captain

[Michael Brown]

Microsoft Word already has tools for linking to your pictures.

To do a basic one manually you would:

1. Insert a picture

2. Select the Picture

3. From the Insert Menu - Insert Caption

4. Next to your comment From the insert menu - Insert Cross-Reference

Captions will match and so will the link that can be preserved even after conversion to pdf. If I click the Photo 1 next to the comment I will jump to that picture. Word will auto number them for you.

Table of Contents should also do the same if you insert a Table of Contents in Word, it will create the Table with all of the Headings that you used to make up the document. So when someone opens the document they can quickly jump to the section they want to look at by clicking the Table of Content link. The footnotes and endnotes are the same, the links can still work after conversion to pdf. Also the headings can be converted to bookmarks and you will have a document map next to the document in the pdf viewer.

This for those that don't know the tools are there already.

Michael Brown

DevWave Software Inc.

[allspec33351]

Try this

Captain

Image Insert:

176.76 KB

[Chris Bernhardt]

Thanks Mike for the tips.

Captain, yes the findings are bit busy and crowded.

Chris, Oregon

[chicago]

Chris is that a word processor or a software program?

For word it looks good.

Must admit I junked word for open Office and Think Free.Think Free allows online storage and can convert any word document.

Sorry I should have checked to see the table of contents was mis-labled.

When I get the new software going I will submit a sample as I am still deciding on a good template myself.

I feel good segregation of systems and componants with clear easy to find headings is important.

Right now it is Horizon which you guys already know.

[Chad Fabry]

Well, I started this thread with a good intention of showing a group of new home inspectors that there's a place where people will tell you like it is - no matter what. There are plenty of places like association meetings, conventions, even entire associations that will pat you on the back and say "good job". The problem is, they even say it when it isn't a good job. All the kids in Little League get a trophy and everybody plays.

So, the folks that aren't doing a good job keep on doing what they're doing because they aren't getting the feedback they need to improve.

The report I sent out to the 9 people that asked to review it was intentionally 'worked' to include a few obvious spelling errors, poor format, hyperbole and some darn near incendiary language. It was technically accurate but inadequately delivered. One fellow had a comment in his critique that went like this: "are you taking this seriously or not?" That was a good comment.

Another fellow told me I was using too much passive voice. That was helpful because I didn't intentionally include passive voice.

Two people said I probably shouldn't use the phrase "when pigs fly" in a report. I'll be honest; I have used it in the past.

My point is even though I created a flawed product, 6 out of 9 either told me it was good or very good.

3 told the truth.

In another thread I lamented the fact that we don't, as a rule, call each other on breaches of ethics, inadequate skill-sets or headupyerassitis.

We'd better start doing that soon or our profession will be a laughingstock roughly on par with slurpee specialists at the 7-11

[kurt]

Originally posted by hausdok

.............. if I understood one of Kurt's posts correctly, you folks have lawyers that are intimately involved in the purchase transaction in your area, whereas lawyers are not involved in the transaction here unless the buyer goes out and pulls one into it. Last time I looked, lawyers had to know how to read, write, and comprehend English at better than a 6th grade level in this country.

That's what's odd. The attorney's handling these things don't understand squat. Usually, not a damn thing. They're begging for pic's.

We have a dummying down of America going on. I don't like it, and I don't care to contribute to it. I especially don't like the idea that folks in this thing I do are trying to dummy-down what we do with cute colors and pictures.

But, to coin one of Walter's phrases, maybe it's just me.

OT - OF!!!

M.

It's a matter of formatting layout, and cohesion. Words or pic's are both useless if they're not thoughtfully considered. Plenty of dummying down in the world, but it's not based on the use or non-use of words or pictures; it's based on a lack of intellectual firepower.

Lottsa misunderstanding in this "discussion".

Funny thing. If you hand someone only one report format, they will like it; doesn't matter if it's a 3 ring binder w/check marks, 12 pages of single spaced narrative, photologue (comic book), Word doc, or slide show. They will like it. Always. They don't have anything to compare it to. It's weird, but it's true.

I've been doing real customer research for about a year. I give them sample reports utilizing all sorts of different software packages, formats, layouts, pic's, no pic's, etc. I really don't have an agenda other than figuring out what "my" public wants.

Pic's win. Hands down. Not even close. Probably 99.9% like the pic's, and the other .1% are mouth breathers who can't read.

Dumbing down is happening regardless of what we think or do.

(For the record, my average week includes at least 2 visits to the bookstores in my town (there are several), one to the library, and at least one visit to the newstand just in case. I'm all about words & writing.)

In another couple months, I'm going to have a prototype of my new system up; I'm signing out of this discussion until then.

[chicago]

Chad can you dowload it for all ,with the link M>B put up?

[Chad Fabry]

Roof: The roofing installation is not satisfactory and a mess. For example lots of shingles were aligned

to the nailing chalk line and were not sealing down, chimney flashing is installed wrong and gooped with

copious amounts of black roofing sealant, valleys are installed poorly (front valleys were sloppily cut, the

left valley metal sections are not aligned and the interface between the two sections is gooped with

copious amounts of black roofing sealant, the rear valleys are woven wrong), none of the sidewall

interfaces at the gables are installed right (For example at the west gable the roofing is incomplete, bare

roof decking is exposed, underlayment is not installed properly, there’s no flashing and its absolutely

roofed wrong at the end of the northern end rafter. This gable end obviously leaks.) At other gable ends

the flashing is either not installed or installed wrong. And there is no flashing at the electrical service

mast; another point that will leak. These are just examples and not a complete list of issues. In order to

obtain any warranty from the roofing mfg, the roofing must be installed per their instructions and

recommendations which in this case it is not. The shingles look like a 25 – 35 year product, it follows

then the installation of the roofing system should be capable of lasting that long and it’s not. Find out

who the shingle mfg. is. Have the rep come out and inspect the installation and see if they will even

warranty the installation assuming the installation can be repaired to the mfg’s satisfaction. Have a

licensed roofer perform the repairs properly and not the last person who made this roof a mess.

All phases of the roof installation are unprofessional and do not follow (any) manufacturer's installation instructions. When a roof is this poorly installed all that can be done is to tear it off and start over.

The roof is leaking today in xxxx locations. Even if these spots are repaired now, the roof will be problematic and impossible to maintain.

I suggest you contact a qualified roofer to obtain estimates for removal and replacement. If you think you might not be able to afford this, I suggest you do it before closing.id="blue">

See

photo 8 on page 5. See photos 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 & 8 on page 6. See photo 2 on page 9.

2) Roof drainage system: I found a number of issues with the roof drainage system; for example, it looks

like the gutters were hung too low and flashing was installed to try and cover the large gap between the

roof and the gutters. This flashing was just stuffed loosely into place and not fastened at all. Winds will

dislocate this flashing. The gutters were filling up with leafs and the downspout was missing right of the

front entry and downspouts also drain next to the house. Have a gutter contractor come out and reinstall

the gutters properly. If flashings are needed then get them fastened in properly to the roof. Clean out the

gutters and install leaf guards. Ensure that all downspouts are installed and have leaders draining away need cleaning.

There is a down spout missing at the rear. It's important to get the roof run off water away from the house at least six feet to protect the foundation from erosion and to keep basements and crawl spaces dry. The easiest way to do this is to extend the gutter down spouts. id="blue">

from the house. See photos 1 & 2 on page 4. See photo 2 on page 5. See photo 7 on page 5. See

photo 1 on page 7.

3) Exterior: It looks like someone was trying to cover the open eaves of the front entry but left the corners

open. Close up the openings to ensure that birds and vermin don’t nest in the front entry roof cover. See There are open areas in the eaves that have no fascia and /or soffit covering. Have these areas properly clad so birds and those friggin red squirrels vermin can't make their home in your attic.

A carpenter or even a handyman can make the necessary repairs. id="blue">

Chris, simpler is better. Don't assign blame. When a system is completely compromised just say so and save yourself the angst of trying to report on every defect.

If you can't get your photos into the text then I wouldn't bother using them. Or, use them w/ individual captions that don't need to be referenced to the main body of the report.

OK, I did roof...next editor please

[Neal Lewis]

Chris,

A couple of things. I think I would be looking for a more accurate description than "messed up" and "busted out". I forget which section it's in.

What's with all of the items with a line through the text. If it's not present, I would just leave it completely out or use the N/A.

Do you really need six full pages of disclaimers. Does Oregon law require that you list all of that stuff in the report?

[Chris Bernhardt]

All phases of the roof installation are unprofessional and do not follow (any) manufacturer's installation instructions. When a roof is this poorly installed all that can be done is to tear it off and start over.

Chris, simpler is better. Don't assign blame. When a system is completely compromised just say so and save yourself the angst of trying to report on every defect.

Thanks Chad. What you said was very useful. I bolded the phrases that particularly struck me. I have seen master Katen take that approach but what you said adds another perspective for me.

I know I went way too far with the details. The seller who is supposedly a licensed contractor was challenging everything I had verbally told my client on this one. My experience has been in case like this if I write the short and sweet version the client initially nods his head then later the selling side comes back with all that BS about how who ever installed the roof is a licensed contractor blah blah blah and the inspector is crazy cause he can't even support his opinion with any facts. Trickles back to the client who then calls me to ask me to try explain the facts then the client says can you please call the seller and explain to him what you just explained to me!

Ok, go ahead and tell why I wrong to think this way.

Chris, Oregon

[Chris Bernhardt]

Do you really need six full pages of disclaimers. Does Oregon law require that you list all of that stuff in the report?

No, but I have had more then one lawyer(They were clients actually) compliment me that I presented that crap like that. Go figure. Particularly what they liked about it was that it was all in one section and not spread out through the report. It's because of those couple experiences I am having difficulty jettisoning all that disclaimer crap.

I got the "messed up" phrase from Jim K. Maybe Jim will explain its proper use. It gets boring being so formal all of the time. "The strainer in the bathtub drain is damaged/missing" I got lazy and said it's busted.

Oh yea, the strikeout thing. My intention was to list all of the items in the Oregon SOP. Where it was not applicable I decided to strike it out to give it more emphasis. I know it's weird. I have thought about not doing that and just listing the item as N/A.

Chris, Oregon

[Chris Bernhardt]

Chris is that a word processor or a software program?

It's MS Word. The building of the report is complicated but I have a lot of macros that do some of the heavy lifting.

I have to do it my way. If it wasn't for that I would be using InspectExpress. It would save me a lot of trouble but I am stuck on using that table format for listing the items of the inspection.

Chris, Oregon

[Jim Morrison]

Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt

I know I went way too far with the details. The seller who is supposedly a licensed contractor was challenging everything I had verbally told my client on this one. My experience has been in case like this if I write the short and sweet version the client initially nods his head then later the selling side comes back with all that BS about how who ever installed the roof is a licensed contractor blah blah blah and the inspector is crazy cause he can't even support his opinion with any facts. Trickles back to the client who then calls me to ask me to try explain the facts then the client says can you please call the seller and explain to him what you just explained to me!

Ok, go ahead and tell why I wrong to think this way.

Chris, Oregon

Chris,

First, I'll say: I'm impressed that you had the stones to put your report on trial here.

But here's the flaw in the approach you describe. You could find a defect, describe it artfully, back your findings up with every Code dating back to the Old Testament, and tie it all up in a logical, well written little package, and someone with a stake in the transaction is still going to tell your clients that you don't know what you're talking about. It's a mistake to think you can write a report that ends all arguments. You can't. When you try, you run the risk of burying important information (the defect) in a sea of words that scared, dumb homebuyers don't understand.

Here's my general report writing advice:

1) Always listen to Katen (If not Ellen, at least Jim).

2) Take Cramer's report writing class if you can. It's excellent. He may not know anything about politics, but he teaches HI report writing better than anyone.

3) If it takes you much more than an hour to write an average report, you're doing something wrong.

4) Shorter is sweeter. In the history of our profession, no homebuyer has ever read more than 10-15 pages of an inspection report. I know I don't have the stomach for it.

5) When writing up defects, I used to write what I saw, what it meant, and what to do. I'd do it all with as few words as possible while still getting my full meaning across. I also never used photos, though I think there is a place for them in what we do. (20 years, no lawsuits, and 4-5 refunded inspection fees.)

6) From the reports I've read, it seems to me that too many HI's write reports they think will impress or intimidate other HI's or builders. Big mistake. When writing your report, try to remember that your audience is a couple of terrified, dumb homebuyers, who are going to forget you and everything you told them in a few months. Don't bother trying to teach them everything you know. Teach them what they need to know right now.

That's all I've got for now,

Go Sox!

Jim Morrison

Princeton, MA

[Chris Bernhardt]

But here's the flaw in the approach you describe. You could find a defect, describe it artfully, back your findings up with every Code dating back to the Old Testament, and tie it all up in a logical, well written little package, and someone with a stake in the transaction is still going to tell your clients that you don't know what you're talking about. It's a mistake to think you can write a report that ends all arguments. You can't. When you try, you run the risk of burying important information (the defect) in a sea of words that scared, dumb homebuyers don't understand.

Thanks Jim, I could have gone another nine years and not figured that out. I obvious haven't done so in the first nine. Thats the kind of insight I have been looking for.

How do you handle the situation I described where parties are demanding you defend your opinion with some details? My guess is to not say anything more then what your recommendation was, am I right?

Chris, Oregon

[chicago]

Must admit I was thinking the same thing.

The most important part of my report is verbal.

You can have the best report in the world,but you had better make sure it was understood.

[ozofprev]

Chris,

Jim changed the way I wrote my reports - shortened. But it's important to look at the whole approach, not just a report. For example, you might have a field report that addresses the 'checklist' of items that the SoP requires. Then you could have a 'final' report that will be most important to the buyer.

Also, here's the flaw in Jim's logic.[]

Premises:

Take Cramer's writing class.

Nobody reads more than 10-15 pages.

Conclusion:

Write short reports.

But, then there is this: Cramer Sample

I'm leaving now for Albany. My son gets married to a really wonderful woman on Saturday. My Tux is packed. My wife and I are excited. Whatever Jim's reply to this - I will tell you now that I agree!!!id="maroon">

[Chris Bernhardt]

Lot of we language and passive constructions in that Cramer example.

I have a question for Hausdok, take for example an unprofessional roof installation, you have talked about the need to record enough information to remind us what we saw that day if need be months down the road, and given the admonishment to keep it short and sweet, how do you record the details? Just keep them to your self in your personal notes and leave them out of the report?

Chris, Oregon

[Chris Bernhardt]

I hear what your saying Walter but you being a musician I think you can understand this. As far back as 5 or 6 I wanted to be a guitarist. Got my first acoustic at age 12. Joined my first performing rock band at age 14. The guys I was with were much more talented then me and could pick stuff up and play it with flair I could not match. But because I wanted it so bad I kept practicing and practicing and practicing and hung out with and took lessons from the best in the Pacific NW and my crappy playing improved and improved. It took about 10 years before I was even a little bit satisfied with my playing. I eventually rose to the top and became well known at the time and played professionally for a number of years.

My point is shear determination and vision can compensate for a lack of natural talent.

Chris, Oregon

[hausdok]

Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt

Lot of we language and passive constructions in that Cramer example.

I have a question for Hausdok, take for example an unprofessional roof installation, you have talked about the need to record enough information to remind us what we saw that day if need be months down the road, and given the admonishment to keep it short and sweet, how do you record the details? Just keep them to your self in your personal notes and leave them out of the report?

Chris, Oregon

Hi Chris,

Yes, that's one way to do it, but it means you have to keep detailed notes on file with every file copy of the report and you have to be consistent about it. For instance, investigative reports only show what the investigator needs to present to the public, but behind the scene there is always a chronological log kept that details every single step of the investigation. That isn't seen by anyone unless it needs to be used at trial. The same goes for the investigator's personal notes.

If one is reporting and keeping records that way, one has to also be careful not to adulterate those notes with stuff that's not supposed to be there. For instance, a favorite tactic of defense lawyers is to ask an investigator how he can be so certain of some of the things he saw, heard, or did during an investigation, when what's on file, including the log, is on file back at the office and he might have been distracted by another case before returning to the office. Almost invariably, the investigator's answer will be that he immediately noted it in his notebook, whereupon the defense lawyer will get the judge to compel the investigator to turn over his notebook for examination. If the investigator has notes in there which can hurt his case, such as a handwritten blurb to himself that says, "Jones probably didn't do this - no reasonable motive," and Jones is the one on trial, they can sometimes get the case tossed on the basis that there was no probably cause to even suspect the subject, in which case any warrants would have been gotten under false pretense and all evidence gathered becomes fruit of the poisonous tree. Smart investigators will take a fresh notebook with them for every case. Today, I imagine they probably plug their notes and hand sketches into a PDA that's linked to a computer somewhere, so that they have real-time notes of what they're doing, seeing, and hearing. They probably also have to be careful about how they archive that info and where.

Now, what we do isn't that far away from a criminal investigation. We carefully examine a site for things that are irregular, incorrect, or just aren't supposed to be there, and we note them. In this case, instead of explaining what we're seeing to the DA, we're explaining it to the potential homeowner. Instead of a defense lawyer trying to discredit our notes and throw up obstacles to what we're trying to accomplish, it's a 'zoid, a seller, or an obstinate contractor. If you train yourself to automatically record relevant information about the home without thinking twice about it; and then you carefully record that information and archive it, you'll be able later, even years later, to pull the file, read it, and describe that home in detail to anyone who's challenging your report - whether it be the buyer, because he is accusing you of having screwed up and missed something; whether it be the seller, because he's trying to lay blame on you; whether it be a 'zoid who's trying to lay the blame on you, etc..

Also, it's not always to defend yourself. I often get calls from old clients saying, "Hey Mike, this is _____. Remember me, I had that home on ____street that you inspected for me 6 years ago. I've got a question about that water heater issue....." If you've written your report carefully, you can pull that report, scan just a few pages, and it will key your memory like dropping a DVD into your computer, and you're better able to answer the question.

Since we don't have firmly established protocols for how we do this thing that we do, you can do it any way that you want to do it. All I've been trying to make folks understand is that this is serious stuff that can come back to bite us badly years down the road if he don't carefully document what we saw, heard, or did during an investigation of a home. Those pictures that everyone is so fond of? Those are perfect for that if the notes that are keyed to those pictures accurately explain what the picture is meant to depict.

I think Kurt's idea of taking pictures with an audio feed is a good modern example of the investigator's personal notebook idea - especially if that data stream can be imprinted with the date and time to prove that it's not been altered. The data can be downloaded to a disk that gets tossed into the file. The customer never has to see it or even know that it's there, but if you ever need it, you'll have it. That will be far superior to handwritten notes because, unlike handwritten notes which a crooked investigator can record incorrectly, knowing that he might one day get asked to show his notes, they will be harder to dispute.

The way I see it, you've got two choices; create a detailed report format and inspection protocol that will ensure that you don't miss anything onsite or leave anything out of the report, and record it all in the report, or, create a less-detailed, just-the-facts-ma'am type of report, and keep your handwritten notes, CD's, and anything else in it's own individual file back at the office. Me, since I don't have all of the file archive storage space that I used to when I was an investigator, I put it in my report - mostly because I want to force guys like Chad to stab themselves in the hand with a fork.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[chicago]

WJ I finally totaly aggree with you on your last point.

(I know many people, like you described).

Another word for it is charisma.

I myself have it in fleeting glimpses but have never found the secret on how to maintain it.

.Anyway this just goes back to the point I was trying to make about how different things work for some but not others,and we all have our own style.

P.S I thought the Cramer report was good.

[Jim Morrison]

How do you handle the situation I described where parties are demanding you defend your opinion with some details? My guess is to not say anything more then what your recommendation was, am I right?

Chris, Oregon

Remember what your purpose is. You were not hired to make everything OK. You were hired to teach homebuyers about the condition of the property they are buying. You don't have to convince anyone other than your client of anything. So, write up defects carefully and accurately. That's it. Wrong is wrong. If you want to cite code, or give them pictures...have at it.

I see it like this: I got paid to teach my client about the house, not convince everyone involved in the transaction that I was the smartest guy in town. It's the buyer's job to take the information we provide and be persuasive with it. All you can do is give them the tools, but if they can't make good use of them....that's not really your problem. I'm not saying don't be helpful, but you can't adopt every client.

Your job isn't to right all RE wrongs, it's to do an excellent inspection and be as helpful as you can be. Failure to recognize your limits in this regard is the short road to unhappiness.

I'm sure Cramer has written some crap in his career, we all have. But his class made me a better writer and a better inspector. I recommend it to everyone.

[Chris Bernhardt]

Looks like this thread has pretty much played out. Here's a recap of some of the things I learned from it.

Don’t make constructions laying, indicating or implying blame.

Don’t build a case of why it’s wrong. Just say it’s wrong and what could happen if it’s not corrected. The important point is likely to be lost in the sea of details and analysis.

Don’t build a case as to why it’s wrong as a preemptive defense to try and outwit challengers to our opinion.

Write to teach the client what they need to know right now, Don’t try and teach them everything you know about the subject.

Some prior threads have concentrated on passive and vague writing, spelling, punctuation etc. There are already some very good sources dealing with those subjects. I particularly liked Bonnie T.'s book. But what I am interested in are unwritten report writing principles beyond these. Why hasn't anyone ever published a report writing book for HI's? Judging by the interest in this subject here at TIJ I would think it would be a best seller not to mention a bible for the attys.

Chris, Oregon

[Bob White]

Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt

. . .

Why hasn't anyone ever published a report writing book for HI's?

. . . Chris, Oregon

How many of us REALLY think we need it?[]

[chicago]

Just from this thread you can surmise ten inspectors have ten syles.

Which is better ,depends on which is most like yours.