radon test results

[John Dirks Jr]

After a 48 hour deployment of EPrem canisters the lab results are;

average of 7.8 pCi/l

I am about to turn these results over to the client. So this reading means that further action should be taken, correct? I know they are going to ask questions. How do I direct them?

Thanks

[Mike Lamb]

The EPA recommends fixing the problem if readings exceed 4 pCi/L. Send them to

http://www.epa.gov/radon/

[Mark P]

John,

Not to sound mean, but I don’t know how else to say this. If you don't know the answer you should not be conducting radon tests. Furthermore are you aware of all the various EPA protocols for conducting radon test? If not then someone who is in the know can argue the test are not valid. I’d encourage to obtain some additional education so you can speak intelligently about radon, radon mitigation, and know that your test meet established EPA protocols. There are lots of classes around.

Anyway, I always say that the EPA recommends mitigation above 4.0….…..

Here are some sites you can send your customers to

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/radon/index.html

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/radon/index.html

http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/hmbyguid.html

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/tvads.html

[John Dirks Jr]

Thanks for the links Mark. I handled it correctly. It's just that this is the first time I had to report a high reading and wanted a tad of advice on the approach.

For the record, here is how I responded.

The results are in and they read an average of 7.8pCi/L. The EPA recommends mitigation for anything higher than 4.0pCi/L. There is no need to be alarmed. This can be dealt with and maintained easily. There should be a clause in your contract regarding the possible need for radon mitigation. Talk to (insert realtor name) about that. Send them this email if you want to.

The average cost of reliable mitigation systems are $800 to $1200. When you hire a mitigation company to address this, tell them you plan to have a follow up radon test done by another contractor to make sure that the installed system is doing its job.

Here are some EPA links to more information.

Maryland map> http://www.epa.gov/radon/zonemap/maryland.htm

EPA radon info> http://www.epa.gov/radon/

For the record, in case anyone asks, the canisters were deployed as follows.

They were hung in the center of the basement from the main girder. They were hung half way between the ceiling and floor and they were about two feet apart from each other. The deployment duration was 48 hours.

Any one of you can call me if you want to talk about it on the phone.

The lab results are attached.

[SonOfSwamp]

"They were hung in the center of the basement from the main girder. They were hung half way between the ceiling and floor and they were about two feet apart from each other. The deployment duration was 48 hours."

Don't go by me; my co-inspector always did the radon tests. But I think the above describes a test that's nowhere near the EPA protocols.

Is the basement habitable? Were the cans set the right distance from the floor?

Also, last time I checked, a high reading with cans was the trigger for a follow-up test.

WJid="blue">

[John Dirks Jr]

I hung the canisters as instructed by the lab who supplied them. i have the document they provided me. I can scan and post it if you want to see it.

[Mark P]

In my case I find radon testing easy, because all I have to do is follow some very clear EPA and State protocols. I don’t even have to give my opinion on it. Just do the test according to the rules and if I’m asked a question I say “according to the EPA….

I would drop the part about the contract and the realtor and also the verbiage on where the things where placed.

I would keep a record of all the details in case it should come up in the future. Because of IL law I have to draw a sketch of the homes foot print, location of all windows, doors, HVAC equipment, sumps, floor drains, fireplaces, and where the test equipment is placed. Start/stop time date, etc

There are a lot of rules on where to place the detector but here are some of the basics:

Position detector where it will not be disturbed.

Place it in lowest habitable living area

Should not be near drafts caused by HVAC, doors, fans, etc

Not within 12â€

[John Dirks Jr]

Mark,

The deployment met all of the things you listed.

Thanks for the advice everyone. [:-graduat

[Neal Lewis]

Originally posted by SonOfSwamp

"They were hung in the center of the basement from the main girder. They were hung half way between the ceiling and floor and they were about two feet apart from each other. The deployment duration was 48 hours."

Don't go by me; my co-inspector always did the radon tests. But I think the above describes a test that's nowhere near the EPA protocols.

Is the basement habitable? Were the cans set the right distance from the floor?

The state protocol may be different from the EPA. In NJ, it's the lowest potentially habitable area.

They were hung in the center of the basement from the main girder. They were hung half way between the ceiling and floor and they were about two feet apart from each other. The deployment duration was 48 hours.

That's within the protocol.

Also, last time I checked, a high reading with cans was the trigger for a follow-up test.

The recommendation now is to remediate if the level is high; no more retesting.

BTW- remediation is recommended if the level is 4.0 or higher, not just if it exceeds 4.0

WJid="blue">

[pybarra]

"They were hung in the center of the basement from the main girder. They were hung half way between the ceiling and floor and they were about two feet apart from each other. The deployment duration was 48 hours."

Below is a portion of an EPA document.

Protocols for Radon and Radon Decay Product Measurements in Homes (EPA 402-R-92-003, May 1993), is a guidance document.

3.2.2 Option 2: Simultaneous Testing

...

The collocated devices should be placed four inches (10 centimeters) apart.

Appears to be an invalid test if you placed the EPREM's 2 feet apart.

I hope you are NEHA-NRPP , NRSB or state certified.

[John Dirks Jr]

Documents from the supplier say 18 to 24 inches apart. One canister read 7.5 and the other 8.1 for an average of 7.8. The results are valid.

[Mark P]

Originally posted by pybarra

Below is a portion of an EPA document.

Protocols for Radon and Radon Decay Product Measurements in Homes (EPA 402-R-92-003, May 1993), is a guidance document.

3.2.2 Option 2: Simultaneous Testing

...

The collocated devices should be placed four inches (10 centimeters) apart.

Appears to be an invalid test if you placed the EPREM's 2 feet apart.

I hope you are NEHA-NRPP , NRSB or state certified.

The e-perm is an Electret Ion chamber not a carbon canister. "option 2: Simultaneous Testing" is an option used with carbon canister and does not apply in this case.

[pybarra]

Originally posted by AHIS

Originally posted by pybarra

Below is a portion of an EPA document.

Protocols for Radon and Radon Decay Product Measurements in Homes (EPA 402-R-92-003, May 1993), is a guidance document.

3.2.2 Option 2: Simultaneous Testing

...

The collocated devices should be placed four inches (10 centimeters) apart.

Appears to be an invalid test if you placed the EPREM's 2 feet apart.

I hope you are NEHA-NRPP , NRSB or state certified.

The e-perm is an Electret Ion chamber not a carbon canister. "option 2: Simultaneous Testing" is an option used with carbon canister and does not apply in this case.

[pybarra]

During a real estate tranactions you test either with active or passive devices. Continious Radon Monitors (CR or CRM) are active devices you only need one unless doing QA. Passive devices include carbon devices (AC,LS ...) and Electret Ion Chambers (ES or EL) and you ALWAYS use two devices for Real estate transactions.

If you follow EPA protocol now administered by NEHA-NRPP and NRSB or a state regulated protocol you use two passive devices 4/5 inches apart. This is the most important protocol that will keep you out of hot water if someone challenges the results.

John, Where did you get your devices? Rad Elec (EPERMS) ?

AHIS: Please review the following or OR call IEMA to explain it to you...

TITLE 32: ENERGY

CHAPTER II: ILLINOIS EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY

SUBCHAPTER b: RADIATION PROTECTION

PART 422 LICENSING OF RADON DETECTION AND MITIGATION SERVICES

SECTION 422.130 MEASUREMENT PROTOCOL

[Erby]

I R a Radon Tester cause the place I buy my stuff says I R.

Might want to take a look at the Maryland law "Maryland Environment Code § 8-305:

The average cost of reliable mitigation systems are $800 to $1200.

And we spend how much time criticizing agents for quoting prices of home inspections??????

[SonOfSwamp]

Originally posted by Erby

I R a Radon Tester cause the place I buy my stuff says I R.

Might want to take a look at the Maryland law "Maryland Environment Code § 8-305:

The average cost of reliable mitigation systems are $800 to $1200.

And we spend how much time criticizing agents for quoting prices of home inspections??????

I'm trying to figure out how a meaningful "average" can have a spread of 50%.

WJid="blue">

[Scottpat]

Originally posted by Erby

I R a Radon Tester cause the place I buy my stuff says I R.

Might want to take a look at the Maryland law "Maryland Environment Code § 8-305:

The average cost of reliable mitigation systems are $800 to $1200.

And we spend how much time criticizing agents for quoting prices of home inspections??????

Uh Oh... Looks like a person could be violating the law if they don't have the NRPP/NEHA certification and they are doing radon testing in Maryland.

[ghentjr]

Originally posted by John Dirks Jr

The results are in and they read an average of 7.8pCi/L. The EPA recommends mitigation for anything higher than 4.0pCi/L.

Talk with your attorney about what needs to be done to protect your interests in the transaction.

The above is edited to (in my opinion) what you should have reported. Anything more puts you in jeopardy at most, and at least was not necessary.

[John Dirks Jr]

Looks like there is some conflicting information out there regarding the laws in Maryland. I'll try and get to the bottom of it.

I checked various reputable sources regarding the legal requirements in my state before I conducted any radon testing. Nowhere did I find any requirements for any kind of licensing or certification, either local or national.

I follow the instructions that are given me by the lab that provides the E-Prems.

I got a call from a person today. He said he had seen this thread. He told me he was an instructor for a NEHA certification course here in Maryland. He has me on the contact list for the next course. Although it is a good idea to have it, he says there is no requirement for any certification in Maryland. He told me I did everything correct and that much of the lines crossing in this thread are a result of those being unfamiliar with the laws in Maryland. He said that half of the people he knows who are NEHA certified, conduct the tests incorrectly.

So, cert this and license that, does that mean that a person does it correctly?

I did everything the way I should have and served my clients well. They paid for and received reliable information about something they need to be concerned about.

I intend on getting the cert anyway, but I havn't done anything wrong.

About the guy who called me. It's his choice not to make his statement here. I respect that for what ever reason it is. I was curious though so I googled his phone number from my caller id and got plenty of hits. He is who he said he is.

[Scottpat]

Originally posted by John Dirks Jr

Looks like there is some conflicting information out there regarding the laws in Maryland. I'll try and get to the bottom of it.

I checked various reputable sources regarding the legal requirements in my state before I conducted any radon testing. Nowhere did I find any requirements for any kind of licensing or certification, either local or national.

I follow the instructions that are given me by the lab that provides the E-Prems.

I got a call from a person today. He said he had seen this thread. He told me he was an instructor for a NEHA certification course here in Maryland. He has me on the contact list for the next course. Although it is a good idea to have it, he says there is no requirement for any certification in Maryland. He told me I did everything correct and that much of the lines crossing in this thread are a result of those being unfamiliar with the laws in Maryland. He said that half of the people he knows who are NEHA certified, conduct the tests incorrectly.

So, cert this and license that, does that mean that a person does it correctly?

I did everything the way I should have and served my clients well. They paid for and received reliable information about something they need to be concerned about.

I intend on getting the cert anyway, but I havn't done anything wrong.

About the guy who called me. It's his choice not to make his statement here. I respect that for what ever reason it is. I was curious though so I googled his phone number from my caller id and got plenty of hits. He is who he said he is.

This is the link to the regulation...

http://law.justia.com/maryland/codes/gen/8-305.html

Looks like you need to be listed with NEHA

[pybarra]

Maryland may not have requirements to have a person certified or licensed BUT any person performing testing needs to follow protocol to provide the best service to their clients and have documentation that can be legally defensible. EPA protocol has long been the standard in this industry and many states; national certification and tribal areas have taken this into account and have used this as input for their requirements. Of course since Maryland is not regulated testing can be conducted as desired? Yea, I think not. There is the right way to do testing and the wrong way.

Advice: Challenge this NEHA person that is attempting to herd you as a new student. If he thinks 2 feet and 4 inches are the same. Or run fast and find a new trainer. I also encourage you to review the EPA documentation to find out first hand (see EPA doc in earlier post of mine). Another idea is to call Rad ELec (maker of EPERMS IF that is what you are using), Air Check or Accustar and ask them the protocol for real estate transactions using passive devices.

Also, if the instructor is so confident tell him to join the thread...ops he is reading...

That's it ... we can lead a horse to water but we can't make them drink.

[Brian G]

If the EPA protocols spec one thing and the manufacturer of the test devices specs another, which one trumps? In building codes it would be the manufacturer, but I suppose you could argue the tester could be damned for going either way and ignoring the other. I mean rules are rules, defensible positions and all that, but jeez, does anyone here really think the difference between 4 inches and 2 feet will actually matter in the end? Please.

Look up the posts here by C. P. Connell about radon. The whole test is highly questionable to start with. You aren't actually measuring radon, no matter what device you use.

Brian G.

Straining at Gnats [:-boggled

[Brandon Whitmore]

That's it.... lets place 2 sets in every house. One set at 4" and one set at 2'. That way you comply with both standards. []

[Erby]

John, you asked:

So, cert this and license that, does that mean that a person does it correctly?

Hell no. Certification and licensing only mean that "at one point in time" the person proved a minimal level of compentency.

BUT, if you're going to sell it, it sells better. AND the training will make you feel more confident in your reporting.

I tell my customers that if a state license was such a great and wonderful thing they wouldn't have been cursing at all the state licensed drivers on their way to work that day.

[John Dirks Jr]

Originally posted by Scottpat

Originally posted by John Dirks Jr

Looks like there is some conflicting information out there regarding the laws in Maryland. I'll try and get to the bottom of it.

I checked various reputable sources regarding the legal requirements in my state before I conducted any radon testing. Nowhere did I find any requirements for any kind of licensing or certification, either local or national.

I follow the instructions that are given me by the lab that provides the E-Prems.

I got a call from a person today. He said he had seen this thread. He told me he was an instructor for a NEHA certification course here in Maryland. He has me on the contact list for the next course. Although it is a good idea to have it, he says there is no requirement for any certification in Maryland. He told me I did everything correct and that much of the lines crossing in this thread are a result of those being unfamiliar with the laws in Maryland. He said that half of the people he knows who are NEHA certified, conduct the tests incorrectly.

So, cert this and license that, does that mean that a person does it correctly?

I did everything the way I should have and served my clients well. They paid for and received reliable information about something they need to be concerned about.

I intend on getting the cert anyway, but I havn't done anything wrong.

About the guy who called me. It's his choice not to make his statement here. I respect that for what ever reason it is. I was curious though so I googled his phone number from my caller id and got plenty of hits. He is who he said he is.

This is the link to the regulation...

http://law.justia.com/maryland/codes/gen/8-305.html

Looks like you need to be listed with NEHA

I saw that Scott. I am checking into it. For now, can anyone show me that text on any type of official Maryland State document or website?

I'm calling the State Department of Labor Licensing and Regulation (DLLR) today.