Mike Lamb Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 This AC heads to an outside GFCI which would be considered a damp or wet location. Right? And I'd like to double check that this is the correct NEC reference: 320.10 Uses Permitted. Where not subject to physical damage, Type AC cable shall be permitted as follows: (3) In dry locations Image Insert: 130.54 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Remas Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 Is the AC visible outside or does that go directly into a box? If it is not visible and it simply goes to a box then there is no problem. If it is visible on the exterior then you do have a legit problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted November 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 None of the raceway is visible from outside. Why would visibility makes a difference? That said, I have looked over ARTICLE 320 Armored Cable: Type AC and found nothing wrong with this installation. I do find it odd that that there is a section re: EMT connections embedded in mortar (358.42 Couplings and Connectors. Couplings and connectors used with EMT shall be made up tight. Where buried in masonry or concrete, they shall be concrete tight type. Where installed in wet locations, they shall be of the raintight type.) and none about AC connectors enbedded in mortar which is likely the case here. Can an AC connector be rain tight? Is there a concrete type connector for AC? Image Insert: 73.23 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qhinspect Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 Originally posted by Mike Lamb None of the raceway is visible from outside. Why would visibility makes a difference? From the information you gave, the flexible conduit is in a dry location. Electrical wires do not need to be protected from water if there is no chance of water entering the conduit. If you can see the flexible conduit outside, there is a chance of water entering. It appears to be fine. the slope of the soil might be different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 Another good reason they should allow the use of NM cable![:-propell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Did you call out the location of the condensor disconnects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Did you call out the location of the condensor disconnects? You checking to see if everyone is anal like me? They are. I learned it here. BTW it's compressor and condenser. Second only to masonary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 What about what appears to be a clothes dryer draft hood dumping onto the compressors condensers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 OK, I'm confused. What's wrong with the disconnects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Whitmore Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 OK, I'm confused. What's wrong with the disconnects? I would say nothing is wrong with the disconnects[], but there is something wrong with their placement, due to the lack of adequate clearances. Sorry, couldn't help myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Originally posted by Chad Fabry Did you call out the location of the condensor disconnects? You checking to see if everyone is anal like me? They are. I learned it here. BTW it's compressor and condenser. Second only to masonary. Yeah, the condenser could make you "sor" when reaching for the disconnects on the "masonary" wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickSab Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 If that is a city lot, there is plenty of room to get to them. I've seen a lot harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Originally posted by Mike Lamb This AC heads to an outside GFCI which would be considered a damp or wet location. Right? And I'd like to double check that this is the correct NEC reference: 320.10 Uses Permitted. Where not subject to physical damage, Type AC cable shall be permitted as follows: (3) In dry locations You'll find the definition for "Location, Dry" in article 100. Personally, I think that the MC cable is fine in this instance. The disconnects shouldn't be located behind the condenser units. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Originally posted by Jim Katen Originally posted by Mike Lamb This AC heads to an outside GFCI which would be considered a damp or wet location. Right? And I'd like to double check that this is the correct NEC reference: 320.10 Uses Permitted. Where not subject to physical damage, Type AC cable shall be permitted as follows: (3) In dry locations You'll find the definition for "Location, Dry" in article 100. Personally, I think that the MC cable is fine in this instance. The disconnects shouldn't be located behind the condenser units. - Jim Katen, Oregon Unless the units are located 36" or more away from the building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qhinspect Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Just out of curiosity, how many people call out that the disconnects are improperly located if they can still be easily accessible? I note it on my report to cover myself but that's as far as I go. Others might disagree. It's been many years since I've been a HVAC tech for residential but I remember when companies were able to install the disconnect on the condensing unit. Then they had to locate the disconnect somewhere else, normally on the house sometimes behind the condensing unit. Then they couldnââ¬â¢t install them behind the condensing unit anymore which likely did not make them happy since it made them installing the outside unit that much harder/time consuming. As Jeremy wrote, there were exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Remas Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 The AC cable appears to be properly installed. If an inspector were to question the AC cable based on the fact that the exterior masonry is a "damp" location then he/she would have a case. In this instance, MC cable would have been a better choice. If I were doing code enforcement, I would not have flagged this situation although I would have a strong case if I used the "damp" word, however that appears to be a bit overzealous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Originally posted by Jim Katen The disconnects shouldn't be located behind the condenser units. - Jim Katen, Oregon I've never heard that before. Ever. Interesting. Where's the cite? In the city, you put it where it will fit. I work on the line of sight/visible/dry/reasonably accessible requirements. Shoot, on some of the stuff I look at, if you couldn't put it behind the machinery, there'd be no place to put it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted November 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 These disconnects were not behind the condensers but off to the side which is good enough for me. Still, this violates working space requirements of 30†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 Originally posted by Mike Lamb These disconnects were not behind the condensers but off to the side which is good enough for me. Still, this violates working space requirements of 30â⬠Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 I agree. I was curious as I have been called out by an AHJ on this over a little 2 1/2 ton unit that I had installed. I suppose it is a matter of what the inspector decides is readily accessible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Remas Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Readily Accessible disconnects: I would say YES Does it meet the workspace requirement: NO Dryer vent needs to be moved it that is a dryer vent because it will clog up the condensing fan fins. AC cable would be OK in my book but I would tell the electrician to use MC next time he goes through brick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Originally posted by kurt Originally posted by Jim Katen The disconnects shouldn't be located behind the condenser units. - Jim Katen, Oregon I've never heard that before. Ever. Interesting. Where's the cite? In the city, you put it where it will fit. I work on the line of sight/visible/dry/reasonably accessible requirements. Shoot, on some of the stuff I look at, if you couldn't put it behind the machinery, there'd be no place to put it. Sorry for the delay. I've been away. The cite is 110.26(A). It's the same section that requires clear working space in front of a panel. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Originally posted by Jeff Remas . . . AC cable would be OK in my book but I would tell the electrician to use MC next time he goes through brick. I'm guessing that the stuff in the photo is MC. Maybe it's different in Chicago, but around here, no one has used AC for a long time. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Remas Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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