Erby Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 Did y'all see the segment on the CBS Early Show this morning about deck collapses. Some good info for homeowners and publicity for the issue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankWoeste Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 Did y'all see the segment on the CBS Early Show this morning about deck collapses. Some good info for homeowners and publicity for the issue! Here's the link to the video: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5109091n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtblum Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 That was great until they decided to suggest that using screws would take care of the problem. What kind of screws? Where should you put them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 That was great until they decided to suggest that using screws would take care of the problem. What kind of screws? Where should you put them? Simpson's SDS structural wood screws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankWoeste Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 That was great until they decided to suggest that using screws would take care of the problem. What kind of screws? Where should you put them? gtblum: They were showing a Simpson Strong-Tie fastener and you can contact them for specific design information. If you are interested in the general subject of deck ledger connection design including connection to an Engineered Wood Product (EWP) Rimboard that is bearing on a sill plate, then you can review this document: http://awc.org/Publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6.pdf Frank Woeste Professor Emeritus Virginia Tech University Blacksburg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtblum Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I think you guys missed my point. Think about who's watching that show. Thanks for the info though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 That was great until they decided to suggest that using screws would take care of the problem. What kind of screws? Where should you put them? gtblum: They were showing a Simpson Strong-Tie fastener and you can contact them for specific design information. If you are interested in the general subject of deck ledger connection design including connection to an Engineered Wood Product (EWP) Rimboard that is bearing on a sill plate, then you can review this document: http://awc.org/Publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6.pdf Frank Woeste Professor Emeritus Virginia Tech University Blacksburg I have a question, Frank. On page 12 of the AFPA document in your link, attaching a ledger board through brick veneer is prohibited. I realize that brick veneer isn't allowed to support anything other than its own weight, but it's exceedingly common for the fasteners to pass through the veneer and be anchored to the house's wooden floor system. In fact, I see that configuration on nearly a daily basis in my area. What's the downside of installing fasteners through brick? Moisture infiltration through the holes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I think you guys missed my point. Think about who's watching that show. Didn't you hear the woosh sound as your point shot right past me? This is just one more thing those expert real estate salesfolk can scream at us about. "Your inspector is an idiot. It was on national news that drywall screws are fine". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankWoeste Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I have a question, Frank. On page 12 of the AFPA document in your link, attaching a ledger board through brick veneer is prohibited. I realize that brick veneer isn't allowed to support anything other than its own weight, but it's exceedingly common for the fasteners to pass through the veneer and be anchored to the house's wooden floor system. In fact, I see that configuration on nearly a daily basis in my area. What's the downside of installing fasteners through brick? Moisture infiltration through the holes? Bain: Yes, water infiltration is an issue. Also, since the brick veneer isn't allowed to support anything other than its own weight, the bolted connection would have a large "gap" between the two wooden members of the connection (house band and deck ledger). The "gap" would be composed of the sheathing thickness, an air space, and the width of the brick. The presence of the "gap", whatever it adds up to be, greatly reduces the structural strength and stiffness of the bolted connection. We tested the case where the "gap" was only 15/32" (wall sheathing) and the results of that case are tabulated in the ledger table of DCA6. It's worth noting that tabulated bolt shear values published for years in the NDS and other wood design books are based on the assumption of no gap between the members. Good question. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted June 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I thought brick veneer support was not allowed simply due to "extraction", i.e., if the deck moves laterally away from the house, it takes the brick with it. Brick ties aren't intended to keep a couple tons of deck and people from moving sideways; they're just there to hold the brick to the structure. On many levels, I don't know why the world doesn't go the direction of Gwinnett County, GA, and call for free standing decks. If the ledger is the constant and continuing concern, let's get rid of it per WJ's previous comment. It just makes sense, which of course is so often contrary to how the building industry works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Morrison Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I think that's unnecessary. Think about it: If a fella is intent on banjaxing a deck job, he can do it to a freestanding deck just as well as a deck that's attached to the house. Granted, there will be fewer leaks if the deck is freestanding. But what about this? People have been attaching decks to houses and getting it right for just about as long as they've been getting it wrong. It's no different than any number of other common defects that keep home inspectors feeling needed by the public. If AHJ's had both the resources and desire to live up to their job descriptions, then we'd see a whole lot more well-built decks. You can mandate whatever you like, but if the rules aren't enforced strictly and uniformly, then the banjaxers of the world will keep smartasses like us in business. And I , for one, thank Providence for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I once sent Kurt a sketch of a way to support and flash brickwork and attach a deck to a house that had veneer. Wish I could find that danged sketch so I could ask Frank's opinion of the method. OT - OF!!! M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted June 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I saved it somewhere, but I can't find it......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmiller Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 This is a very informative document on deck installations. http://awc.org/Publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6.pdf Thanks to Frank for posting it. In reading this I came across something I did not know on page 12, where it specifically calls ledger board attachment to a cantilvered overhang a prohibited connection. I find this interesting considering the fact that many split-level homes have a cantilevered upper story, which almost always has a upper level deck attached off of the kitchen/dining rooms. Rarely, if ever, have I seen these free standing. Does anyone ever make a recommendation to add an additional inner support beam with posts and piers to take the load off the ledger, and the cantilvered floor system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Morrison Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 I find that in my area, many folks misuse the word 'cantilever'. A true cantilever is a beam supported only on one end. An overhang is a beam that is supported in more than one place and overhangs it's outside support by some distance. It makes a big difference. I don't suspect there are many cantilevers that are designed to also support exterior deck loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankWoeste Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 More deck problems in GA: http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/ ... lapse.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Meyer Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Hi WJ. I wrote up the lack of bolts on a deck ledger a while back. For the re- inspection I went into the crawlspace to see if I could see any of the bolts (cripple wall). Every nice new shiny bolt end was visible in the sheathing between the studs. I see this quite often when the interior section of wall is exposed-- scary stuff. Yes, sometimes they miss. On this deck, that's not the only place they missed. Using hold downs to beef up the attachment to the house may have been a good idea, but the execution leaves something to be desired. Click to Enlarge 34.62 KB Click to Enlarge 29.51 KB Click to Enlarge 18.86 KB Click to Enlarge 42.04 KB Click to Enlarge 26.97 KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 More deck problems in GA: http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/ ... lapse.html Hi, Well, when one looks at the gallery of photos with the article you can see that the ledger split right down the center and the bottom half pulled off the house. You can also see that the ledger was rotten and that there'd been water infiltration going on for quite a while. Line up bolts in a straight line and install a deck without flashing and you're just waiting for the day it collapses. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankWoeste Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 In reading this I came across something I did not know on page 12, where it specifically calls ledger board attachment to a cantilvered overhang a prohibited connection. I find this interesting considering the fact that many split-level homes have a cantilevered upper story, which almost always has a upper level deck attached off of the kitchen/dining rooms. Rarely, if ever, have I seen these free standing. Does anyone ever make a recommendation to add an additional inner support beam with posts and piers to take the load off the ledger, and the cantilvered floor system? This JLC Q&A addresses some of the issues: Download Attachment: JLC Attaching Deck Ledgers to I-Joist Cantilevers June 2009.pdf 98.21 KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Here's a picture of a deck I did last week. Besides many other problems, the joist hangers are a classic. This is a townhouse development where they are all the same! Click to Enlarge 52.18 KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Here's a picture of a deck I did last week. Besides many other problems, the joist hangers are a classic. This is a townhouse development where they are all the same! That's a deck built by pros. Nice. Here's a photo of a deck built by a resident in my jurisdiction. He'd never built anything before. I answered a few of his questions then handed him a prescriptive deck building document I copied from somewhere and a Simpson Deck Accessory Catalog. He's pretty proud and I told him I'd share the photos with you folks. Darren's photo is why I don't use the terms professional or amateurish in my reports any longer. I still use "crappy" or "built by a fourth grader". Click to Enlarge 51.71 KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted September 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 I hope you gave him a gold star. Pretty nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 Here's a photo of a deck built by a resident in my jurisdiction. He'd never built anything before. I answered a few of his questions then handed him a prescriptive deck building document I copied from somewhere and a Simpson Deck Accessory Catalog. He's pretty proud and I told him I'd share the photos with you folks. What's with the strange post-to-girder connections? - Jim Katen, Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 What's with the strange post-to-girder connections? According to Simpson when they're nailed with 16 D nails, they're rated for 1100 lbs each. Bolted, they're rated for 1400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 Don't you just love the Popular Mechanic type. They totally imerse themselves in their project, and the results show it. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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