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Civility on hold


Marc
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Given the abundance of sharp criticisms and negative comments that are often found on the forum, it might be constructive towards preserving/building membership in the forum to censor those posts or portions of them that do little other than insult and aggravate other forum members.

It shouldn't be difficult to find a way to do that. I'm suggesting a sort of line-item veto exacted upon words, phases or entire sentences by moderators and administrators that makes them unreadable while preserving the remainder of the post.

Marc

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Fear not, Marc. Believe it or not, that already occurs when necessary, unless things have changed. The moderators around here are a pretty good group of guys that stay on top of things to keep the site first class, at least I think so.

During my last time hanging out here some discussions drifted way off track and began to become heated and personal. Moderators stepped right in and made it crystal clear "that ain't happnin' here.

You may be wrestling with the very same feelings I was the first time I perused the site - hypersensitivity.

Rest assured no one's out to get anyone here, at least not that I've ever seen. There is a lot of candor, though, and a wide array of senses of humor among these seasoned vets. It's best not to dwell on or read too much into any particular comment as you'll most likely be jumping to a wrong conclusion. It's also best not to have any expectations regarding the overall climate for the same reason. Everyone's expectation is different, because we're different.

Hang in there and have an extremely open mind to challenging ideas and views which is always healthiest if we hope to learn as much as possible.

After all, life is one big school and TIJ is 'jest' one of the classrooms.

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Given the abundance of sharp criticisms and negative comments that are often found on the forum, it might be constructive towards preserving/building membership in the forum to censor those posts or portions of them that do little other than insult and aggravate other forum members.

I don't see an abundance of sharp criticisms or negative comments going on. Could you provide some examples?

It shouldn't be difficult to find a way to do that. I'm suggesting a sort of line-item veto exacted upon words, phases or entire sentences by moderators and administrators that makes them unreadable while preserving the remainder of the post.

On those rare occasions when it's necessary to edit posts or delete them entirely, the moderators here do so. We try to do it as little as possible though, because the free exchange of ideas is what makes this place valuable.

Topics that will get moderated include foul language, name calling, religion, & politics. Mike has also asked us not to post pictures that show people's faces, particularly the faces of people, such as customers, who might not wish to have their pictures posted. Other than that, we encourage healthy debate because it's a good way for people to learn.

Every so often, hyper-sensitive folks get miffed when someone dares to disagree with them. Those people don't seem to understand that vigorous debate is one of the best ways for us to learn. It forces us to reevaluate our beliefs and it hones our communication skills.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

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Hi,

Jim, I don't think I could have said it myself; in fact, I know I couldn't have said it as well.

Marc,

The moderators here are free to moderate, or not moderate, as they see fit. I trust them and so far not one of them has ever let me down. You won't find me overruling them or putting in place policies that put moderator choices to a vote. Ain't gonna happen, My Friend.

We TIJ'ers are already the butt of mountains of criticism from folks at two other major boards because of our moderation policy here. Reading comments about us on other boards, it's clear that some folks have the idea that this is a heavily censored site when it's anything but.

It's the folks who come here that self moderate this site and it's very rare that one of the moderators needs to step in. We don't give a whit what the critics say; this place is our neighborhood hangout and that's the beauty of it - we don't shit in our own house.

TIJ is here for folks to speak honestly with one another and to help each other. It's neutral ground where you'll find your comments deleted more quickly for organizational partisan bullshift than you will for duking it out with someone over a technical disagreement where one of you loses your temper.

The rule here is pretty much, keep religion and politics out of your comments and don't say anything that you'd be afraid or hesitant to say to one of these guys in person for fear it might get you punched in the nose. Oh, and when I say "religion" I'm also referring to the association sycophants that sometimes come on here and think this is the place to come to diss their org's nemesis. We don't need that kind of dogma here either.

Lots of folks have left here over the years; some of them really good folks - folks that I admire - and some of them not-so-good. While I'd welcome all of them back, I'm not going to allow this place to be ruled by priggishness.

I'll make one observation, though: you seem to be suffering a little bit from Peck Syndrome. In other words, when you get it into your head that you're right and you can't change another's mind, you don't seem to be able to simply shrug it off and let the other guy choose to continue to believe what he believes. It's like you want to "win" the argument and simply will not accept it when the other guy won't concede defeat. That seems to have been earning you a few rejoinders that I'm guessing are the basis for you starting this thread.

My advice, grow a thicker skin and don't be peckish* - learn to accept the fact that other folks here are free to be wrong, or right, if they so choose to be.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

*Peckish adj. - the inability to accept any opinion that contravenes your own. An overwhelming need to be "right" or to "win" an argument at all costs - even going to the extent of trying to wear down your opponent's opinion through pedantic and repetitive posts; the inability to recognize when others' are growing weary of what they perceive as a know-it-all, patronizing or superior attitude.

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Marc,

I am one of the folks that can edit or delete a post. Over several years I have taken "action" twice. Once when a woman emailed me regarding a photo link and once when a link was posted for personal gain. That is all!!!

Was there a specific instance involving you?

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It's interesting how it happens sometimes that you get started on an endeavor and although the journey was nothing like you planned or even imagined, you end up in a desirable place, if not exactly where you intended.

I'm reminded of a first course in vector mathematics where the professor offered two different solutions, one correct, the other not. He asked the 100+ students which was the correct solution then crossed out the wrong one with a big red 'X'.

Looking at each of the responses to my thread, I can easily group most of them into two parts. I can see the difference clearly and I have my answer.

Thank you all for your responses.

Marc

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Please identify any recent posts containing "sharp criticisms and negative comments".

Thank you.

Yes, what exactly are you referring to, Marc? I know you've been told you were wrong, and that you missed a point, but the person who made those observations was absolutely correct. Another person took time to create an illustration to help explain why you were misinformed.

I get corrected or disagreed with around here, same as everyone else. There's seldom any malice involved, though. And who has time to preface a comment with, "I have nothing but esteem and respect for the gentle inspector from Louisiana, however I fear he has made an error in judgment that demands rectification."

Stick around.

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Looking at each of the responses to my thread, I can easily group most of them into two parts. I can see the difference clearly and I have my answer.

You joined TIJ in November of 2009 and you now know everyone well enough (or at least those that have posted in this thread) to divide us neatly into two groups. Please enlighten me with your conclusion about the two groups as I'm dying to hear your valued opinion. Also, please share with me how you went about this thought process because you have really piqued my interest.

*** for those keeping score I've use "piqued" twice now - a fact I'm most proud of***

EDIT - feel free to delete this post in the interest of keeping the peace, tis Christmas after all.

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That load of crap has been circulating on the interweb for at least 6 years.

One last post here - Bill Kibbel is nothing short of brilliant. If you'd spend more time reading than posting you would quickly come to that realization.

Mike, do not allow others to chase away quality as they did with Douglas Hansen or W.J.!

Is it the reincarnation of Energy Star?

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Mike, do not allow others to chase away quality as they did with Douglas Hansen or W.J.!

Is it the reincarnation of Energy Star?

Hang on a minute.

If you look back, you'll see I've never ever jumped on the pile when he left or kissed his ass after the fact.

W.J. threw rocks, they were thrown back, he took his ball and bat and left.

No one ran him off.

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That load of crap has been circulating on the interweb for at least 6 years.

That was neither a sharp criticism nor a negative comment. It was an accurate observation that pointed out your credulous simplicity in, first, believing a threadbare email hoax and, second, passing it on. It had the added benefit of cleverly using the word, "crap" to describe an email hoax that was centered on the subject of manure.

He was having a little gentle fun at your expense. If you think that was sharp criticism, you need to get out more.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

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Hi,

Jim, I don't think I could have said it myself; in fact, I know I couldn't have said it as well.

Marc,

The moderators here are free to moderate, or not moderate, as they see fit. I trust them and so far not one of them has ever let me down. You won't find me overruling them or putting in place policies that put moderator choices to a vote. Ain't gonna happen, My Friend.

We TIJ'ers are already the butt of mountains of criticism from folks at two other major boards because of our moderation policy here. Reading comments about us on other boards, it's clear that some folks have the idea that this is a heavily censored site when it's anything but.

It's the folks who come here that self moderate this site and it's very rare that one of the moderators needs to step in. We don't give a whit what the critics say; this place is our neighborhood hangout and that's the beauty of it - we don't shit in our own house.

TIJ is here for folks to speak honestly with one another and to help each other. It's neutral ground where you'll find your comments deleted more quickly for organizational partisan bullshift than you will for duking it out with someone over a technical disagreement where one of you loses your temper.

The rule here is pretty much, keep religion and politics out of your comments and don't say anything that you'd be afraid or hesitant to say to one of these guys in person for fear it might get you punched in the nose. Oh, and when I say "religion" I'm also referring to the association sycophants that sometimes come on here and think this is the place to come to diss their org's nemesis. We don't need that kind of dogma here either.

Lots of folks have left here over the years; some of them really good folks - folks that I admire - and some of them not-so-good. While I'd welcome all of them back, I'm not going to allow this place to be ruled by priggishness.

I'll make one observation, though: you seem to be suffering a little bit from Peck Syndrome. In other words, when you get it into your head that you're right and you can't change another's mind, you don't seem to be able to simply shrug it off and let the other guy choose to continue to believe what he believes. It's like you want to "win" the argument and simply will not accept it when the other guy won't concede defeat. That seems to have been earning you a few rejoinders that I'm guessing are the basis for you starting this thread.

My advice, grow a thicker skin and don't be peckish* - learn to accept the fact that other folks here are free to be wrong, or right, if they so choose to be.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

*Peckish adj. - the inability to accept any opinion that contravenes your own. An overwhelming need to be "right" or to "win" an argument at all costs - even going to the extent of trying to wear down your opponent's opinion through pedantic and repetitive posts; the inability to recognize when others' are growing weary of what they perceive as a know-it-all, patronizing or superior attitude.

Mike, I am offended that you used the word "Shit"! You should edit out all curse words that appear in any of these discussions.[:-taped]

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