First complaint-- arghhhh.

[Bain]

The thing I've found most useful in preventing complaints is doing the job, i.e., running the appliances and seeing if they work, make ugly sounds, or are otherwise problematic.

Bingo. I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "The last house we bought, the (fill in the blank) didn't work. All the inspector had to do was turn it on, and we would have known."

[Richard Moore]

Since my customers are almost always on site, I usually say "You saw me operate the appliances, right?"

That puts the conversation on the same track as a "I did this and that and it did this and that" report thingie.

Brandon, were your clients on site? I don't think you have mentioned that and, as Kurt implies, it could make a huge difference in the way this gets handled.

For the record, I do briefly report what I test in the kitchen, laundry, etc...with qualifiers. If there are no observed defects, I insert (or leave in place) basic boilerplate.

e.g. The dual fuel range was tested and all burners and heating elements functioned normally. Note that I do not test ovens for all possible cooking modes, temperature control or any self-cleaning function.

I can't say I've ever had an appliance issue like yours (touching wood).

[hausdok]

Sheesh, Mr. O' is back.......

KMA! Never left; I come in here daily. I'm just tied up trying to get certain other things done, and you know what they are, prior to the time change and the rainy season moving in here in full force - which it seems to be doing already.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

P.S.

Earlier today I got an emailed complaint from a client about a house I did on May 1st. She says they're having a problem with mice in the crawlspace, that there were dead mice found, that they've paid $1000 so far for a rodent guy to come out, inspect the home and seal an entry point behind a "gutter"(I think she means downspout and I'm guessing it's up under the edge of the siding, although I don't know yet 'cuz I haven't seen it.).

She says the additional cost to cleanup the dead mice and replace insulation is $4500 and that the current estimate to clean up and seal up the house is $5611. She says the exterminators are currently "investigating the attic, which showed some signs of mice, and this would bring the total cost of cleaning and sealing to approximately $10,000". (!!!)

She wants to know how I might have missed a hole large enough for mice to get through and how much financial compensation I'm going to offer.

Whew!

I responded nicely. Bottom line, I didn't see any dead rodents in the crawlspace or see any damaged insulation in the crawlspace or I would have reported it. After all, having mouse crap rain down on me when I'm pulling insulation aside to look at the floors always grosses me out, as do dead rodents, and you guys all know about the "thing" I have about rodent infestations, If they'd been there, I would have reported them.

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I pointed out that I did report signs of mice in the attic, that I'd told her that was the time - the beginning of summer - to make maximum effort to exclude them, since they'll be working all summer to bring stuff in to stock up for winter, and that she should search for any holes that are the size of a dime under the perimeter of the siding, around the furnace in the garage, etc., and plug those with steel wool, and told her that if she didn't want to do that herself she should get a rodent exclusion guy to do it for her.

I also pointed out that per our contract she was required to promptly call me first and provide me a reasonable opportunity to respond, determine if she had a legitimate dispute or claim and give me the opportunity to resolve the issue, before contacting anyone else.

I also pointed out that rodents are specifically not mentioned in the state SOP and that the last sentence of general exclusions in my contract states, "We do not address conditions related to animals, rodents or household pests," but that I'd reported signs of rodents to her as a courtesy, because of my,...uh,.....aversion to rodents and not as a requirement.

Asked her why she waited until now to get after this when the report mentioned at the beginning of May that there was debris in the crawlspace that needed to be cleaned out (Look below, photo shows debris but also shows undisturbed insulation under the floors), a vapor barrier that needed to be corrected because mushrooms and organic material was growing out of the uncovered soil (photo below) and when there was a heating duct with a broken hanger that needed correction and that photo also shows no damaged insulation.

Asked why she hadn't brought in a rodent exclusion guyimmediately instead of allowing the rodents, which have fresh litters about every six to seven weeks, to continue to propogate and expand the range of their activity/damage beneath the home.

Pointed out that she could have done all of that prior to closing at seller's expense or could have walked away, so why hadn't she done that? If she had, she probably wouldn't be writing now, no?

Told her that from my point of view I'd fulfilled all of my obligations, including informing her of a rodent issue that needed correction, and that there was no way I was going to be reimbursing her for replacement of insulation when instances of mice actually trashing all insulation are pretty rare.

Told her that I don't want unhappy customers; so, if she wants to talk about a refund I'll be happy to discuss it, but I'm not going beyond that yet.

Also pointed out that under the terms of our contract that she was free to initiate arbitration proceedings if she wants to go beyond such discussions.

Here's the kicker. She is the one that provided me a defense!

I feel bad that this is happening; but I had only told her verbally about the mouse trails all through the attic. Because I hadn't found any droppings on the attic hatch or littering the insulation around the attic hatch to convince me that it was an ongoing infestation, I hadn't been convinced that there actually was an active infestation, and I hadn't initially reported those findings in the first draft of the report because I'm not required to. She'd written me back and insisted that I mention in writing the rodent issue in the report even though it's not required. It was no biggie, easy to do and it took me less than five minutes to accomplish. I did that as a courtesy to her. If she hadn't insisted that I mention that, there wouldn't have been any mention in the report of rodents, no instruction to close the gaps and no recommendation to get a rodent guy out right away to fix it. If she wants to go to arbitration, I hope that the arbitrator turns out to be a sensible fair person.

Guess we'll have to see which way this plays out.

[kurt]

The old mans' gettin' touchy.........

I've had the mouse complaint.

When I'm in those funky crawls, I tell folks they probably got mice, because there's almost always mice. I tell folks to get a pest guy in, just like I might tell someone to get a termite guy to check things.

Had a mold complaint about 3 months ago. When they took down tiles to remodel the bathroom, they found mold under the tiles. Oh, the horror......[:-censore

[hausdok]

Had a mold complaint about 3 months ago. When they took down tiles to remodel the bathroom, they found mold under the tiles. Oh, the horror......[:-censore

Well, that's only because it's "toxic" dontchya know? [:-eyebrow

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[charlieb]

Sorry to hear it Brandon.

I too have a rodent story. Had a broker call and state "we have a serious problem". It seems the new owner stored "real" artwork" in the attic. Well you can guess what chewed on the art.

I was able to quickly direct her attention the to the photo and comment in the report of the rat droppings on top of the furnace. Dead silence.

[hausdok]

Sorry to hear it Brandon.

I too have a rodent story. Had a broker call and state "we have a serious problem". It seems the new owner stored "real" artwork" in the attic. Well you can guess what chewed on the art.

I was able to quickly direct her attention the to the photo and comment in the report of the rat droppings on top of the furnace. Dead silence.

Has anyone else noticed how often the things inspectors tell us here that folks complain about are the things that are not covered by standards and are thus not required to be in the report; and how, even when we put it in the report as a courtesy anyway folks usually don't even notice that it's in the report because they've never bothered to really read the report?

There is a reason we never mentioned rodents in our SOP; they're a moving target - if they aren't there today they can be there tomorrow and there's no way we can accurately predict that kind of thing. A couple of months ago, I came out of a crawlspace and reported that I'd found a whole lot of rat droppings underneath the home and about 15% of the insulation beneath the floors had been ruined and needed to be replaced. The agent, seeking to mitigate my findings and maneuver me into saying what she wanted me to say, asked something like, "Are they fresh droppings, or is it possible that there once was an infestation and those rats have been gotten rid of and the droppings are just what's been left behind?

My response: "I dunno how fresh they are; I didn't taste them. Tell you what, I'll go back in and bring one out and you can taste it and tell me whether the droppings are recent or are old. How about it?" The client cracked up, the agent turned beet red and tittered while her eyes said, "You wise ass son-of-a-bitch." She declined. In my mind, I licked the end of a finger and chalked one up for me on an imaginary scoreboard.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[charlieb]

ROF you are a wisearse

[hausdok]

Hi All,

Just off the top of my head, here's a quick list of the type of stuff I've heard folks have complained about that's not included in SOP's. Some of these are things that other inspectors have said they'd gotten complaints about and some are those that I've been called about when I delivered the report and the client called back because he or she had "questions."

Anyone got more?

Docks and bulkheads

Retaining walls not contiguous with the house or which don't effect the house.

Detached structures

Rodents

Insects

Appliances

Burgler Alarms

Fire Sprinkler Systems

Cat IV Wiring systems

Cable/Satellite systems

Internet Service

Lawn irrigation systems

Swimming Pools

Broken main water line between the meter and the house

Broken sewer pipe below grade

Leaking/abandoned oil tanks below grade where no clues as to their existence are evident

Not knowing that an aquafir was near the surface in a neighborhood

Mold concealed behind walls

Invisible ambient mold that's not concealed but simply present in the air around us

Failing to measure EM fields from nearby power lines

Failure to measure for radon (we don't do that here)

Failure to test for formaldahyde

Failure to find asbestos containing materials concealed in walls or floors

Broken/separated metal chimney flue joints

Leaking water heaters in concealed/inaccessible locations

Holes/cracks in heat exchangers

Shorts occurring in wiring concealed in walls.

Failure to report overloaded/overspanned floor/ceilings joists concealed behind drywall

Well pumps

Septic Systems

Blocked footing drains

Low-voltage wiring

Carpeting

Window Treatments

Gymnastic Equipment

Indoor Air Quality

Fireplace chimney draft

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[hausdok]

ROF you are a wisearse

Well, maybe. Just a wee bit. [:-angel]

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Brandon Whitmore]

Brandon, were your clients on site? I don't think you have mentioned that and, as Kurt implies, it could make a huge difference in the way this gets handled.

The client was on- site, and I was there for probably about 7 hours, so he can't say I rushed my way through.

I replied to his e- mail before posted on here last night. He has not replied yet, but according to the agent, it may not be as serious as the client's e- mail made it out to be.

According to my limited info received from the agent, the water line was turned off to the dishwasher. Now, if it was turned off before my inspection, I would have turned it on, run the dishwasher, and turned it back off after my inspection. Had the valve been difficult to turn or looked at me wrong, I would have just reported that I was unable to operate the dishwasher. I did not, which means I ran the dishwasher. I still haven't heard for sure as to whether the only issue was that the water was turned off.

I have been told that the water line for the ice maker leaked when they turned it on. I don't inspect ice maker water lines or ice makers..... I hope that's the only "serious defect" he is complaining about.

[Chris Bernhardt]

I had a lawyer tell me at the start of the recession to expect an increase in complaints for every little thing. I haven't seen an increase in complaints in my business, but it does appear that there are more complaints on stuff totally outside of the SOP.

Has anyone else noticed a trend?

Chris, Oregon

[kurt]

I've noticed a general trending toward unreasonableness and weirdness about picayune little crap, but it's not reflected in complaints.

Only the one mold complaint for me.

[Tim Maxwell]

I've not seen an increase in complainers but many buyers are edgy and worrisome. It seems like the cheaper the house the more they worry.

The biggest worrier I have had this year was paying 14k for a little 80 year old house that was the same today as it was 80 years ago.

Needed new electrical, new plumbing, NEEDED HVAC and so on.

The more they pay, the less they worry.

I've never had an appliance complaint, but if and when I do I am not going to worry about it too much.

[gtblum]

Internet Service

Are you kidding?

Did they Email that complaint?

Does anyone here think they don't have rodents somewhere in their home?

[Scottpat]

If you have not already done so you need to call and speak with the new owner and make an attempt to go and take a look at what they are complaining about.

As a home inspector we need to inspect the appliances. Folks are buying a home and they expect the appliances in the kitchen to work just like they expect the heat and the A/C to work.

[Mark P]

I had a guy go bizerk over the phone because his electric ceiling heat was not working and his family was freezing. I asked him 3 times to check that all the circuits in the panel were in fact on – he assured me they were. I drove over the next day (after another cold night) and I could tell the guy was ready to tar-n-feather me as soon as I arrived. The only thing I said was let me check the electrical panel first – as we walked back to the utility room he was ranting about how cold his kids and wife are and they were going to have to move into a hotel until “Iâ€

[Jerry Simon]

My guy complained his wife couldn't close and lock a second story double-hung window, and since he was out of town, threatened me with bodily harm if I didn't go out and fix it immediately so his wife would not be at risk of being raped and his house being robbed, or some such drivel. I don't know why, but I relented and drove out to the house.

His wife was trying to close the window with the latch in the locked position. . .

[Denray]

The only complaint I have had so far was from an owner. My phone rang and a nice sounding guy asked if I was the inpsector that came up to X town. Then sweetly asked if I had insurance. Then said he was going to sue me for ruining the deal. Went on about how those flexible bellows type drains were made for that purpose. On and on about a bunch of stuff. His buddy with him was a home inspector from somewhere and I did not know what I was doing. Perfectly fine for the bath to exhaust into the attic. I just listened to him, kept explaining why I said what I said. Conversation went on for about half an hour or more. I never heard from him again.

[Erby]

You spent a half an hour on that!

[Denray]

The sad truth is I have nothing better to do and it defused an idiot. An idiot can take you to court and waste a lot more time than that.

[mgbinspect]

I love (and stole) Jim K's comment regarding appliances and equipment: "Functioned today." I love it... Lol... thanks Jim!

[Scottpat]

I had a complaint call left on my voice mail last night while at my son's football game. Seems Mr. X is really mad because a big tree (100' tall, two hundred year old oak) died in his front yard and it is going to cost about $5,000 to remove it and then he wants a substantial tree put in as a replacement! This is a new construction home and he has lived in it for about 10 months. Any bets the builder killed the tree when they put in the circular drive that goes around it!

Anyway, I just finished talking with his wife. She must have told me that her husband is mad at me about five times during the first two minutes of the call. She lightened up when I told her that the builder is responsible for 1 year with everything in and around the home and that if she read the inspection report she would see that I noted that the tree had many dead branches and that they should contact an tree expert/tree surgeon to see if it had problems because it is a centerpiece of their landscaping.

I wonder how long it will be before the demand letter arrives!

[Marc]

Reminds me of a distant relative I have that doesn't hold any regular job. He makes his living out of suing manufacturers, government agencies, insurance companies and people. Has a nicer house and vehicle than I do. Only in America.

You noted the tree in your report. That alone should convince opposing attorney to go 'fishing' elsewhere.

Marc

[Erby]

It is sad that we have reached a point where we have been trained to believe we can act irresponsibly and the lawyers will find someone to sue so we don't have to live with the physical, and or, financial consequences of our stupidity. (Author unknown)