Ben H Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 New(ish) roof. Dimensional shingles. I couldn't get an answer on what brand, though it seems it really doesn't matter. I checked the install manual for OC, Certainteed, and GAF. They all are basically the same. I've got what looks like a dimensional roof installed like a 3 tab. You can see the break line every other shingle. All the install guides I read says to use a 4-5 staggered course, so you don't have a solid line that runs up the roof. What say you? Click to Enlarge 149.11 KB Click to Enlarge 65.41 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 It's wrong no matter if it's architectural or three tab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben H Posted May 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 I have a feeling I'm going to have to butt heads with the contractor on this one. He had 'his' roofer, who did the install come out and look at it and of course he said it's fine. Big shocker there. The buyer is a real nice guy out of Denver trying to sort things out over the phone. There are no signs of leaks, and it's a few years old. So what are the problems that can/will happen when it's botched like this. Cosmetic only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgbinspect Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 But is it leaking?... (Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.) [:-eyebrow Actually, I haven't had an agent hit me with that line in years - progress! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 It's likely cosmetic only. The same pattern on 3 tab is common practice. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark P Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 I would not butt heads, I would simply provide the intsall instructions and say its not done right, I don't know if it will leak or not. The manufacturer's warrenty will not apply of it does leak, because it is not done right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 It's likely cosmetic only. The same pattern on 3 tab is common practice. Marc That doesn't make it right. If the roofer is too lazy to lay out the shingles right, what else did he screw up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 It's called the vertical racking method and it's generally allowed with single-thickness shingles such as 3-tabs. The advantage is that it's faster for the installer if he has a big crew because, instead of having to cover the roof row by row, he can cover the roof in vertical columns. The disadvantage is that, in each column, you have to lift up and bend back one shingle every other row to nail the shingle below it. (Hard to describe, sorry.) With 3-tab shingles, this isn't much of a problem, but with laminated ones it can damage the shingle because they don't bend well. So either you damage every other shingle at the end of each column or, if you're a particularly lazy roofer, you omit the nail at every other shingle at the end of each column. It doesn't cause anything to leak. At least not until the shingle damage or lack of nails manifest themselves years later. Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben H Posted May 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 Jim's right on. The buyers sent my pics to a roofer here in town (not the guy who did the install) and he called the racking install as well. If I interpreted his email correctly, although not a common practice with laminated, it really won't cause much of a problem as long as they are sealed well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 Huh.........learned something new....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben H Posted May 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 This might help some http://www.mtnhighinspections.com/roofi ... rt_24.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 When I was roofer in a former life we called it booking, and only did it on roof overs and only with 3 tabs. It always looked like crap, you could see every column where each installer varied the exposure. I would frequently double nail the overlapped tab since it was way faster than lifting it-I was a teenager, I didn't know any better and the boss didn't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 When I was roofer in a former life we called it booking, and only did it on roof overs and only with 3 tabs. It always looked like crap, you could see every column where each installer varied the exposure. I would frequently double nail the overlapped tab since it was way faster than lifting it-I was a teenager, I didn't know any better and the boss didn't care. So where are all your former roofs now? [] I agree, that roofer was in a rush and did it the quick and easy way. There could be hidden problems, like missing underlay, missing nails, nails too short, poor flashing, etc. All we can do now is warn the client of possible future problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericwlewis Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 In traffic the other day I saw a van with one of those entire coverage stickers portraying a crew roofing a house without underlayment felt! DOH! Suggested slogan "We can do it cheaper cause we cut corners"[:-thumbd] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben H Posted May 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 In traffic the other day I saw a van with one of those entire coverage stickers portraying a crew roofing a house without underlayment felt! DOH! Suggested slogan "We can do it cheaper cause we cut corners"[:-thumbd] No pic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 So where are all your former roofs now? [] Well; we used IKO, and I left that company in '91 when I fell of a ladder and wrecked my back. Their 25 year shingle generally lasts about 15 years so any of them that are still in service would be mighty thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 The photo is from a house I looked at this afternoon. Both topics raised in this thread are visible. Pure junk, but totally permissible. Click to Enlarge 57.02 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 NY requires underlayment and ice and water shield- it's code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 NY requires underlayment and ice and water shield- it's code. My brother, Kentucky isn't New York . . . in so many ways. But you know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 My brother, Kentucky isn't New York . . . in so many ways. But you know that. Where I live, property taxes 0n a $250K house are just about exactly $10K a year. State income tax for most of us hovers in the 15% range. Sales tax in my county is 8% Electricity just bumped over 15 cents a kwh. Having big brother oversee things like residential roofing practices ends up being a very, very expensive proposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben H Posted May 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 I feel a solid thread drift forming... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 I remember an article in JLC about a decade ago where a contractor explained how he uses that method and what he does to ensure it remains leak-free. I don't have time to do it now, but if I have time and remember it this evening, I'll see what I can dig up tonight. If any of you are JLCOnline members or have the JLC Archive CD that encompasses the last decade, you can probably find it before I can. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtblum Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 The photo is from a house I looked at this afternoon. Both topics raised in this thread are visible. Pure junk, but totally permissible. Click to Enlarge 57.02 KB I drive by a house every day of the week with a roof that was installed exactly like that, more than twentyfive years ago. It's starting to show it's age, but still looks fine. When my friend (the roofer) and I did it, I told him he was out of his mind and we were going to be back there every year to fix it. Never once got a call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 The photo is from a house I looked at this afternoon. Both topics raised in this thread are visible. Pure junk, but totally permissible. Click to Enlarge 57.02 KB I drive by a house every day of the week with a roof that was installed exactly like that, more than twentyfive years ago. It's starting to show it's age, but still looks fine. When my friend (the roofer) and I did it, I told him he was out of his mind and we were going to be back there every year to fix it. Never once got a call. Like so much that we see, some things can be ill conceived or poorly wrought, yet they've been that way for years and have performed just fine. It makes the job tougher . . . seeing something that's dopey or wrong, but realizing, too, that it isn't going to cause any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Like so much that we see, some things can be ill conceived or poorly wrought, yet they've been that way for years and have performed just fine. It makes the job tougher . . . seeing something that's dopey or wrong, but realizing, too, that it isn't going to cause any problems. That said, 90% of the losses I wrote while I was doing the FEMA gig after Katrina and Rita wouldn't have been losses if ice and water shield was on the entire roof deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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